What is the process that takes place when using this technique? Forge Welding.

[erik markman]

Thanks, Joe!

 

[mete]

I've asked this question before but nobody seems to know .When using borax ,where does the borax go ??

Hammer vs press - there are many examples of the differences between hammer and press and I'd have to give it some thought which is best in this case.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I can tell you where it goes in my shop.....everywhere

 

[Bill Burke]

I think Borax is what burns holes in my shirts, pants and the laces out of my boots and keeps the welding store in business selling eye protection to me. I prefer welding drawing on a hammer.

 

[Justin.Mercier]

Stacy says it jokingly... but it's more or less correct. The borax forms a glassy layer that protects from oxidization, and the flux gets driven out and sprays all over the place when you weld it up, or makes slaggy puddles in the bottom of your forge. I've done a bit of forge welding just using fine sand for the flux, and afterwords been able to find little glass beads all around the shop from the flying flux after a forge weld.

 

[daizee]

No, it has nothing to do with decarb at 1450F. I doubt it would help much at all, but if you want, do a group of twenty blades ( half with hydrocarbon and half without) and post the results.

Ha! That would be a nearly year's work at my rate.
I'll keep the flux issue in mind if/when I get to forge welding. Until then I'll just keep reading. Thanks!

 

[JMJones]

Stacy,

Care to elaborate your thoughts on this? I dont understand why it would not act like any other flux, anti scale, inert environment, ect to keep oxygen off the steel when it is hot. Of course I could be missing something completely.

Thanks

John

No, it has nothing to do with decarb at 1450F. I doubt it would help much at all, but if you want, do a group of twenty blades ( half with hydrocarbon and half without) and post the results.

 

[Fred.Rowe]

Stacy,

Care to elaborate your thoughts on this? I dont understand why it would not act like any other flux, anti scale, inert environment, ect to keep oxygen off the steel when it is hot. Of course I could be missing something completely.

Thanks

John

Stacy may have his own reasons, but because the carbon jacket is so thick, its a 1/16th plus. It would act like clay when heat cycling. Steel wouldn't fully harden when quenched. I like the Brownells anti scale, good product.

 

[javand]

I've asked this question before but nobody seems to know .When using borax ,where does the borax go ??

Hammer vs press - there are many examples of the differences between hammer and press and I'd have to give it some thought which is best in this case.

Yeah it either runs off in the forge or gets slapped or smooshed out by the hammer or press. First few hits with borax on the hammer and molten flux flies all over the room, sets clothes and random crap on fire. You'll also notice it harden on your dies in a dirty combination of forge scale and flux. When you do a dry weld or hydrocarbon weld, you'll notice just the usual dry scale popping off, no crazy lights show. Doesn't make for as pretty photos, but it's definitely a lot nicer in most other respects. On the press you'll see the flux literally flowing out of the sides of the billet like syrup.

 

[DerekH]

This has been an absolutely riveting discussion, and while I doubt I will ever get a chance to apply any of this, it definitely answers questions I had about various processes that take place. Thanks everyone for the information!

 

[erik markman]

Claude Bouchonville and myself tried it today with what we call Petroleum and it was a huge success!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

My take on the jacket in an open coating is the opposite of Fred's.

The surface on a plain blade in HT is exposed openly. Any carbon on those surfaces will quickly burn off due to exposure. Even if some protection is provided, it would be spotty, as the carbon easily would be rubbed thinner ( or off completely) in many places. The protection would be minimal or nil, IMHO.

If the carbon actually diffused into the blade surface, the surface would have varying carbon content in different places. This would end up looking like a mottled blade. In grinding, some would be removed, and some not....I don't think it will look god at all.


In a stacked billet, the carbon both fills the tight spaces and diffuses into the surface. In a billet being welded, these are both beneficial. On a plain blade surface in hardening, they would be a negative.