What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

When i carry my glock, i have a 17 round mag, plus a 22 round backup mag on my belt... anything you can't do with 40 rounds of ammo, you probably shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

AAAA_CCCC I agree with your list almost completely.

My only dissatisfaction with my carry solution is that i don't have a holster which allows me to carry my TLR1 mounted on my glock. I'm working on getting that fixed
 
My EDC is Kahr PM9 in a remora IWB holster. Considering the size of the modern 9mm handguns I see no reason to carry a smaller caliber. Therefore my answer is 9mm although I would not feel under armed with a .22 given I had no other choice.
 
What ever I am carrying at the time. Most often carried an old High Standard derringer, 22 mag.
 
When i carry my glock, i have a 17 round mag, plus a 22 round backup mag on my belt... anything you can't do with 40 rounds of ammo, you probably shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

AAAA_CCCC I agree with your list almost completely.

My only dissatisfaction with my carry solution is that i don't have a holster which allows me to carry my TLR1 mounted on my glock. I'm working on getting that fixed


If you'd like to get a light compatible holster, I cannot recommend Dale Fricke enough.....:thumbup:
 
I actually emailed him earlier based on your previous recommendation. Haven't heard back yet. His stuff looks top notch


In my experience, the best way to reach Dale is by phone. He has taken my phone call every time that I've tried to reach him.

Emails usually take a couple of days for a response.


You won't regret doing business with Dale, he' a stand up guy and his product is worth every penny.:D
 
The only real IMPORTANT differences between handgun calibers in my eyes are as follows....

-Carrying capacity, more is always better so smaller calibers get the advantage here.
-Penetration, this is possibly the most important aspect in my eyes. I do not believe in over-penetration, I want as much as I can get when your life is on the line.
-Recoil, again the smaller calibers get the nod here.
-Accuracy and trajectory, an often overlooked part of caliber selection. This also includes the projectile shape, velocity and bullet weight.
-Reliability, bottleneck cases like the 357 SIG are more reliable in feeding than straight walled cases like the 40 S&W.
-Sound Pressure Levels, a 357 Magnum out of a 2" barrel fired in an alley or other confined space will most likely temporarily make you deaf and cause you immense physical pain.
-Light Equipped, as most attacks happen in the dark it is VERY important to have a tactical light mounted at the ready. In order to own the night, you must have a white light.
-Intermediate barrier performance, you're not going to be shooting ballistic gelatin to save your life. How well does your carry ammo of choice do going through bone and heavy clothing? What if your assailant is wearing soft body armor?


My stance on hollow points is that I have no care for them at all....they were only popularized because police departments wanted to limit liabilities through reducing penetration.

Flat point bullets with a wide meplat can do more damage than a hollow point whilst penetrating significantly farther, especially through intermediate barriers.


I like Subsonic 147 gr. 9mm FMJ-FP myself. Carried in a Glock 17 w/ nickle boron coating on slide & barrel, no need to lubricate and 100% reliable. Surefire X-300 attached and carried at 3:00 with a Dale Fricke Gideon Elite kydex holster, custom made to fit G17 w/ X300.


For anyone interested...

Dale Fricke makes the finest, fastest, most comfortable and durable kydex holsters on the market, with a bombproof warranty that covers abuse and misuse....

http://www.dalefrickeholsters.com/

I'm in agreement with most of your post, but the parts I've highlighted in RED need some clarification.

I've shot a 357 mag without earplugs... is most certainly deafening. No argument there... But 'immense physical pain'? I'll have to disagree with you on that point. I felt no physical pain whatsoever.

On the FMJ vs. HP, you're opinion is in the vast minority of of virtually every law enforcement agency and self defense instructor in the world. Granted, a flat point is preferable to a round point since it tends to crush better. Many hunters prefer the flat nose for penetration and crushing ability on large and dangerous game. I suppose this is your point. The real-life problem here is that over-penetration is NOT desirable in a self defense scenario where you are legally responsible for everything your gun launches. If it over-penetrates, you might find yourself in a world of hurt... legally. Jail or civil suit might be in your future. Certainly many thousands in legal bills. Good HP bullets will penetrate plenty without the concern of hitting something, or God forbid... someone behind your target.

Still, the legal aspect of HP bullets is only part of the reason virtually ALL law enforcement agencies and self defense professionals recommend them. The fact is that a good HP bullet can expand to double it's original size. Larger bullets make larger would cavity's which cause more destruction and the ability to incapacitate the threat at a more rapid rate. Pretty simple physics... ;)

See the chart below: If you are set on the 147 grn for your carry round, the Ranger 147grn penetrates around 14" in balistic gel even with heavy clothing.

Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg


The full article can be found here... it's very informative: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.38spl/.357mag



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Read this, and look at the ballistic gel above.

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

i'll stick with my .45 when i can't have my Saiga-12 with a 20 round drum full of 000 buck and a 10 round stick mag of 1.5oz slugs :thumbup:

Though, realistically, since i can't carry that all the time, i practice a lot with my DB380 :eek:

i just loved skunks story.
 
KDSTRICK,

I'll start with the first item you wanted clarified....


What I really should have said is that it MAY cause immense physical pain, anything that is over the threshold of pain MAY have that effect. Once adrenaline is factored in, you may not feel anything but you will certainly not be able to hear if a 357 Magnum is fired in a confined space.

I've had a 45 ACP discharged VERY close to my head inside a friends Lexus.....not a pleasant experience as it was aimed at my head a split second before it went off!!

I had total loss of hearing for about 30 seconds after the discharge, and then my hearing slowly improved whilst I still have occasional ringing in my right ear.

I felt no pain though, which I attribute to the huge rush of adrenaline that came with staring down the barrel of a pistol.

SO, maybe you won't experience any pain but maybe you will?? There's a lot of variables involved in a dynamic situation like a self defense situation.



In regards to you second item.....


I've read the article that you posted, and I know that I am arguing this point against virtually every self defense teacher and law enforcement agency......BUT....

I stated that I personally do not believe in over-penetration, while I know that many folks consider anything over 12" of ballistic gel penetration to be too much.

Ballistic gelatin is not a living breathing human being, and it can only give you so much information.

The human body has most of it's vital organs surrounded by bone, in order to protect the vitals with in essence armor plating.

Ballistic gel does not take this into account, nor does it take intermediate barriers into account such as sheet metal, glass, wood, drywall.

This being the case, I will take more penetration....and deal with any legal action once I've survived the ordeal.


My statement was that Flat points CAN do more damage than Hollow points.

It has been proven that wide meplat flat points crush tissue. The only cavity that matter in wounding is the permanent crush cavity, it matters not how big the temporary stretch cavity is because human tissue is extremely elastic and it will stretch right back without being torn or crushed.

A flat point will undoubtedly cause a wider wound diameter than it's original caliber diameter because of this principle.



The vast majority of hollow points are very slow to expand, even if they do increase by twice their original diameter.

The only exception to this rule is the Barnes X-Bullet, which expands very early in it's penetration.

If you look at the diagram you posted, notice the permanent crush cavity is largest at the beginning of the penetration.

This is because of loss of velocity due to the parachute effect of an expanded bullet, which causes a not so great wound channel for the latter half of penetration.

A Flat point will have a more uniform wound channel and it should be of similar diameter as the entrance wounds you have diagramed.


Here's a photo and quote take from another forum...

45deer011.jpg

"This wound was made by a 45 Colt at 1150 FPS muzzle velocity shooting a flat point hard cast bullet with a .360 meplat
This is what the wound channel calculator predicts
Wound channel diameter of 0.99" with a bullet with a meplat diameter of .360", and a striking velocity of 1100 fps.

Seems rather realistic to me. Those that do not believe that a wide meplat hard cast bullet leave large wound channels are very naive and inexperienced in my experience

Penetration is your friend and wide meplat hard cast bullet provide penetration and large wound channels in spades."

and another quote:

"No penetration no hole, no hole = no effectiveness
One must consider angles and barriers when deciding on the amount of penetration needed in a lethal confrontation. Penetration is always your friend, lack there of can get you killed."



Sorry if I wrote a short novel in this post, but I hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the matter. YMMV.
 
Thanks for the chart with the clear visual data. I wonder what a .357 pill in 125gr would have done to that gel? That .357 sig damage looks very nice but I imagine this venerable round is not quite up to the old .357 magnum in super-vel pressures, especially in heavy bullets.

I would consider a 9mm to be about the smallest caliber that I would be confident to use for self defense.
 
I am sticking to my .40 cal Ranger HP ammo... why? because i have 5k rounds of it, and i don't feel bad blowing through 100-300 rounds at the range

I personally believe that it's vital that you practice with the same ammo that you carry, and i can't afford to practice with ammo that $1.50 per round
 
The minimum caliber that I'd consider would be the 22 magnum. Bill Jordan once called it a wicked round.
 
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