What is the toughest Stainless Steel today? (Niolox, Elmax, Vanax,s35,cpm154)

There was a huge uproar about the CRK knives breaking at the very beginning under very light tasks (comparatively). I was shocked.

There are no examples that i've seen of Bussekin knives breaking before the hammering in vice stage.

The cold steel kukri survived a lot, but it also looked like a twisted pretzel by the end... i don't know that it would be very usable in that condition

and yes, some of the lower end knives did VERY well.
 
BePrepared said:
There was a huge uproar about the CRK knives breaking at the very beginning under very light tasks (comparatively). I was shocked.
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Well of course many people would tell you that you should not be beating on your knives that way. I see a lot of blades with military/tactical styling that are made with 154CM steel and such, and previously people would use ATS34 for those. This would give good corrosion resistance and good edge holding but not so good if you have to use the knife as a crowbar. Someone other than me would have to determine how much you would need to use such a knife as a crowbar. The knives with steel that works well in the destruction tests have to give up something, such as corrosion resistance or edge holding.


BePrepared said:
There are no examples that i've seen of Bussekin knives breaking before the hammering in vice stage.
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Are all of their contemporary knives using the INFI steel? I noticed how highly rated it was in toughness in the preceding discussion.



BePrepared said:
The cold steel kukri survived a lot, but it also looked like a twisted pretzel by the end... i don't know that it would be very usable in that condition.
and yes, some of the lower end knives did VERY well.
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I recall the Cold Steel GI Tanto and Cold Steel Bushman doing well. Those are relatively cheap steel and probably not hardened as much so their edge holding won't be so good. The Cheaper-Than-Dirt rough use knife was the big surprise since it is some kind of cheap unknown stainless steel. Or maybe cheap stainless steel that isn't hardened a lot naturally retains some toughness. I don't know the answers to those questions and that is why I read these threads. I was partway through watching the videos and such when it occurred to me how much I had beat on my cheap thin nail prybar and never worried about it breaking and it dawned on me that the Cold Steel GI Tanto is probably similar material but just with more sharpened edge.
 
Infi is a good knife steel in some ways. It has a very good balance of wear resistance, toughness and corrosion resistance. It's worst property IMO, is it's ability to attract posts like this :

Of course, this infi is also known as the toughest cutlery steel, bar none.
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If it was just one guy spouting this nonsense I'd write it off as an over exuberant new guy. This happens much too often for my taste, IMO. That, and having an almost mythological spouting group of dedicated fans that seem to make up their own information where they don't know the answer. Try getting one to prove where SR`101 or SR77 is modified 52100, or S7. A heat treat doesn't make it a new steel. Marketing does.

They do make great knives and I not only like the over priced Busse ( IMO), but the underpriced Scrapyard and swamprat stuff that are some of the best deals in the cutlery industry ( also IMO). The marketing reminds me of cold steel, the steel, and knives produced are first class. Somehow, for the price paid on a busse they seem to want to try to convince me that it's in my best interests to not include a sheath, and, at times, a dull knife.

By the way, non Busse related I've heard that 1V doesn't do well in knives for a few reasons, rolling of the edge being one.

As far as stainless goes I have a Niolux blade at rc 61. Though I have no intention of testing it too destruction I will say it has a very good level of edge stability. It seems decently tough, below CPM M4 levels, but above SG2 or ZDP so it's not magic IMO. In the kitchen it seems to do pretty well at not getting damaged on steak bones and the occasional contact with a glass cutting backstop. I wouldn't personally put it at the 440C level of corrosion resistance though that's a tough one as I tend to clean up and oil blades without thinking.






Joe
 
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The Mastiff said:
...It's worst property IMO, is it's ability to attract posts like this :
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:) That it does, although a lot of steels share the same property. I've seen more than enough posts here on BF too about 1095 being able to skin 3, 4 or even more deer consecutively, of course no sharpening in between, and still shaving sharp...
Even better, "my 20 or 30 year old, 440A (or 440C), which I use daily, but never needed sharpening, still going strong!"...
Then add a rant about those steel snobs screwing things up for the rest of the crowd, when good old "insert your favorite 100+ year old steel name here" does everything one could want.
 
I have to say, I really hate how these things get derailed into threads about INFI and Noss tests. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a #$%&.

I think it would be instructive for the OP to consider what he intends to do with his knife. Are you looking for a sharpened prybar, or just a reasonably tough knife that will hold a great edge for a very long time? Are you planning on batoning through bricks with your blade (in which case I suggest a jackhammer bit), or do you want a good EDC that will hold up very well to normal knife uses? Are you planning on using or abusing?

Also, are we talking fixed blade or folder?

For a stainless folder, I'm pretty partial to S90V. For fixed blades, I don't really care whether it's stainless or not, so I'm plenty happy with steels like 1095 or 5160. I'd like to try out some 3V, but don't have any personal experience with it yet. Isn't there stainless damascus? I wonder how that stuff holds up. It's PRICY, so I doubt anyone would be willing to do a D-test on it.
 
im not an expert but i think elmax and s90v are the strongest obtainable steel, there are stronger 1s but they cost a fortune and are hard to get, my cousin has a knife in d2 and it seems exceptionally strong too.
 
None of the stainless steels are really good for toughness. Especially when compared to some of the more exotic non-stainless steels (used for knives) like S7 or 3V. The stainless steels just don't have the composition (nor can they) to have great toughness.

None of the stainless steels are even in the same ballpark as S7 or 3V. Not even the same planet! Go to Crucible's website and look at a few of the comparisons, 3V has upwards of 5-10 times the toughness of some of these stainless steels.

The best I've heard and seen in a stainless knife steel is Elmax if you want good toughness and good edge holding.
 
treeman8008 said:
im not an expert but i think elmax and s90v are the strongest obtainable steel, there are stronger 1s but they cost a fortune and are hard to get, my cousin has a knife in d2 and it seems exceptionally strong too.
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Well, it matters what you mean by strongest. There are steels that have much higher wear resistance, impact toughness, and attainable hardness. Those are reportedly very good steels, but they are not the 'strongest' in a particular category.
 
I think most of the more readily available stainless damascus is aimed more at aesthetics than performance. I have Damasteel wedding band and its held up very well, and I am extremely hard on things I carry all of the time. The only reason I'd want a knife made out of it would be if I wanted a gentleman's folder to match the ring.
 
I hope this is a relevant question- how does performance of a steel in Charpy V-notch testing relate to performance of the steel in terms of resisting edge chipping or tip breaking? If these things correlate then it would be a simple matter of getting v-notch test data for the different steels. (We did Charpy v-notch testing in engineering school.)
 
IMO, Charpy testing is spotty on cutlery steels. Not every chip or broken tip is an impact failure. V-notch isn't used much. C-notch and un-notched are used with cutlery steels. If V-notch was used, most common steels wouldn't get above 10 ft-lbs.
 
voracious1 said:
I drunkenly wet formed a leather sheath for a busse game warden (infi), put it in the sheath between two towels under a milk crate full of books and promptly forgot about it. Fast forward a year or so, in cleaning the storage room i came across it. I figured it would be a giant rust scale, bbut there are only two tiny pin sized spots of rust. VERY stain resistant for a steel with so little chromium, 7 or 8% iirc.
Of course, this infi is also known as the toughest cutlery steel, bar none.
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You forgot about a game warden for a year? Hell invite me over, I'll help you clean out your storage room!

This threads going all over the place. For toughness, infi though as mentioned not a true stainless but damn close. Use a coated blade, or like me on my comp finish team gemini, rub it down with eezox.

The m390 s90v recommends are for edge retention. Too much vanadium carbide for a 'tough' blade that will bend and roll instead of chip and crack.
 
I do not know a lot about steel but s90 is one of the best stainless steels along with s110. 3v I would put up in the running also. The thing about steels though is how is it heat treated (big part of it) and finished.
 
Well it's old topic, but I want to say, I agree with hardheart about INFI. Its not stainless nor the toughest steel, so INFI don't have a place in that topic.
The mentioned s90v is great steel, extremely wear resistant, but its definitely not tough. 420 is tough yes but its because the low hardness. I think there wont be significant difference between 420 and cpm s30v at 56hrc in toughtness so i wont bet on 420. The thing about steels is that there have to be balance between properties, and my opinion is that RWL-34 is a good compromice between toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. In 3th page of this topic marthinus posted two clips showing how knife from RWL-34 perform against metal bucket without injuries. The knife was made by Bulgarian knifemaker, registred here with nickname - knifemaniac.
 
NECROMANCY IN PRACTICE! ^ Yep, all about balance, use and other things. S30V is a great steel, top shelf. D2 is great, and loads of other steels are great. But they are all great at their own thing. S30V is meant for a reasonably TOUGH and yet still wear resistant steel but I wouldn't do what I'd do with D2 with it or vice versa!
 
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