What is up with using blade edge on a firesteel?

Guyon said:
I don't use a knife edge, but I'm curious. Do the fire steels produce enough heat to mess with the temper in any way?
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Yes and no. The sparks generated are around 3000 degrees Farenheit, however the energy only lasts for a fraction of a second. It would take a bit longer than that to heat the edge past it's temper point due to the various forms of heat loss that occur.
 
On the temper thing, some have argued that it can but I have to agree Marcelo. While the edge of the knife is thin, it still presents a very large heat sink and surface area on which to distribute the heat of sparks.

Now every time I watch a maker grinding their knife, they have sparks flying. They take care to limit time at a given spot and dip their blade in water as they do this. However, I have to believe that the heat input generated on the blade by grinding is 100's to 1000's times greater than what is achieved by a few strikes on the fero-rod.
 
I also prefer a piece of hacksaw blade, but all of my woods knives have squared off portions of their spines for this, some are courtesy of the maker, some are courtesy of me. But they ALL have it, or they don't go into the woods with me, period.
 
I was using the striker that came with my LMF but IAWoodsman (Terry) had me try the spine of my knife and WOW what a difference... I went from sparks to molten globs and poof I had fire. By the way I was never able to get a fire prior to using the spine. My knife is from Ray Lacanico and the spine even works for hardwood scrapings :thumbup:

Thanks Terry and Ray, Ski
 
effer said:
Your fire staring with that Tops xc est definitely did it :D
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Yeah...but for Rick not as much as if I were to do it with one of his knives I bet :)

I guess I really should have used the little survival saw that comes with the XCEST...it's just a habit I've gotten into here to transition immediately from whittling shavings to sparking them whatever they are made of do to so often lighting fires in light rains and fogs and just generally high humidity here that will make igniting regular wood shavings difficult if you give it enough time and using a sharp edge throws hotter sparks in my experiences.

A few seconds with a ceramic rod and no-one could tell I'd done anything with the edge other than cut. Most knives with good heat treats will take it just fine on the occasional basis. That RC-3MIL in the tinder thread has started numerous fires in the field using the edge when using the RAT fire starter and a serration when using a smaller one and it is still doing just fine. The biggest worry I think, more so than the dulling, is a large glob of a spark getting stuck on the edge and effecting temper. I have to watch for that and scrape it off quickly. But considering I teach survival much more so than bushcraft perhaps I approach it from a slightly different perspective.

Hmmm, this may spark another pic heavy controversial discussion on fundamental differences between survival and bushcraft. I wonder if I could survive that one without getting crucified?
 
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ohski said:
I was using the striker that came with my LMF but IAWoodsman (Terry) had me try the spine of my knife and WOW what a difference... I went from sparks to molten globs and poof I had fire. By the way I was never able to get a fire prior to using the spine. My knife is from Ray Lacanico and the spine even works for hardwood scrapings :thumbup:

Thanks Terry and Ray, Ski
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In my experiences most good square-edged spines are customs. Perhaps because in engineering you're taught that sharp angles are stress-risers and cause a weak point structurally. My Bushlore from Rick throws great sparks, as does the Fiddleback Bushfinger because they were both hand made from a bushcraft perspective and have squared spines. Most well made and high-end production knives I have have the edges of the spines broken or slightly rounded especially the "tactical" designs. I think this is because when you draw out a design and load it into Solid Works you can also place it under stress and see where your weak points are. If lateral pressure is factored into the primary uses for the design then they will often round the edges. I have a habit of just adapting myself to whatever tool I have on hand. If the spine throws good sparks I use it, if it doesn't I use the edge.
 
OwenM said:
Don't know that I'd worry about using a tiny portion of edge against the choil, but I use the supplied strikers, or the spine of the saw on my Hiker.
Everybody has a SAK, right?:)
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I love the sparks the saw spine throws, but you gotta be careful as those little b@st@rds have sharp teeth and will bite you :)
 
I mostly use an awl or the spine of my knives but I don't see the big deal if someone uses the edge. If you know how to sharpen then the world won't come to an end. When I go into the woods I treat my knives like a baby treats a diaper. If I were lost and had no way to touch up the blade then I might be more stingy about my edge.
 
I like using the Awl....I wouldnt hesitate to do it with a knifes edge though. Its such a small portion of the blade, and I dont think it matters much. I dont forsee any need to ever have to do that though, so it will likely never happen.
 
koa said:
I mostly use an awl or the spine of my knives but I don't see the big deal if someone uses the edge. If you know how to sharpen then the world won't come to an end. When I go into the woods I treat my knives like a baby treats a diaper. If I were lost and had no way to touch up the blade then I might be more stingy about my edge.
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But isn't that the main reason people practice this technique?
 
I used to carry a chunk of hack saw blade, which worked quite well. But I like to minimize gear and will use a knife spine. Thanks B.T.W. This thread just gave me an alternate use for that dinky little extra knife that comes with the Ka-Bar Potbelly. :thumbup:
 
I generally use the awl on my Farmer. It works the best IMO. Other than that I will use the spine of my blade. Last time I was out with Koa I used the edge on just about everything and it worked well with no ill effects.

I should also mention that while I was doing firecraft, koa shat on his Koster bushcraft.
 
For guys using the awl on their SAK, instead of dulling one of the more useful tools, why not use the back of the saw blade? Of course, this doesn't apply to those who carry SAKs with no saw (probably a small minority on this forum).
 
The back of the saw on a SAK is the best striker that I have found. If it only locked...
 
Cpl Punishment said:
For guys using the awl on their SAK, instead of dulling one of the more useful tools, why not use the back of the saw blade? Of course, this doesn't apply to those who carry SAKs with no saw (probably a small minority on this forum).
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hlee said:
The back of the saw on a SAK is the best striker that I have found. If it only locked...
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Because it doesn't lock and I use quite a bit of pressure. Also, the awl blade doesn't get used for much else by me. I use the point, but not the edge.
 
The best spine I've ever used is on a laminated Vg10 Fallkniven F1. You can almost weld with it. Almost.
 
The Paramilitary 2 spine works flawlessly :thumbup:

I don't think I'd ever use the blade edge unless I absolutely had to. When purchasing knives I like to check if the spine is squared away for this very reason. Pics and an example :D

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I don't understand the deal with fire steels. Do people use these things to start camp fires in non-survival situations? Why not just use a Bic if so? I suppose there's the argument of having practice, but what good would your practice be if when you actually have to step up and use it the circumstances are changed? I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to overcome it, but where is the point of training if the learning curve is that simple to overcome?

I think a lot of guys are guilty of just playing with the firesteels. Not that I find anything wrong with that, but this idea of, "Oh, why use your edge in anything but a survival situation," just seems silly because I wonder why one would be using a fire steel in anything but a survival situation. Then people suggest keeping a hacksaw blade as a striker, which is a good idea for survival (what if you lose your knife), but to me I wonder why preserving such a small portion of one's knife would be so crucial in a survival context.

At the end of the whole discussion is the damage that can actually be done to the blade. If you use the part of the edge near the choil/ricasso, how much usable edge does it even effect?
 
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