What is up with using blade edge on a firesteel?

[OwenM]

I don't understand the deal with fire steels. Do people use these things to start camp fires in non-survival situations? Why not just use a Bic if so?

I use one to light tinder, or fuel tabs. Doesn't run out of fluid, and always works. Also used it to light a wet Bic lighter recently-thought that was kind of funny.

 

[batosai117]

I don't understand the deal with fire steels. Do people use these things to start camp fires in non-survival situations? Why not just use a Bic if so? I suppose there's the argument of having practice, but what good would your practice be if when you actually have to step up and use it the circumstances are changed? I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to overcome it, but where is the point of training if the learning curve is that simple to overcome?

I think a lot of guys are guilty of just playing with the firesteels. Not that I find anything wrong with that, but this idea of, "Oh, why use your edge in anything but a survival situation," just seems silly because I wonder why one would be using a fire steel in anything but a survival situation. Then people suggest keeping a hacksaw blade as a striker, which is a good idea for survival (what if you lose your knife), but to me I wonder why preserving such a small portion of one's knife would be so crucial in a survival context.

At the end of the whole discussion is the damage that can actually be done to the blade. If you use the part of the edge near the choil/ricasso, how much usable edge does it even effect?

WOT?!!!

Grab your torches and pitch forks

Fire steel (ferro rods) are nice to have and practice with because they are very durable, water proof, and work everytime. They aren't just used for survival situations, with my luck in a survival situation I won't have the darn thing with me. They work great for starting the bar-b-q pit :thumbup:

 

[kgd]

Why not just use a Bic if so?

Kenny, I think its just the negative association with that 'flica' my bic' saying and how in infers mano-o-mano action and stuff like that. If these brutes could just get in touch with their inner selves, grow some self-security about their sexuality and all...They'd flicka' their bics too...Hell, they'd get all metro-sexual'd up and stuff. Black eye-liner and bad-ass lip gloss. The works! ....But for now, they scrape their primitive firesteels and rub some sticks together and pretend they have pecks instead of man breasts

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I don't understand the deal with fire steels. Do people use these things to start camp fires in non-survival situations? Why not just use a Bic if so? I suppose there's the argument of having practice, but what good would your practice be if when you actually have to step up and use it the circumstances are changed? I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to overcome it, but where is the point of training if the learning curve is that simple to overcome?

I think a lot of guys are guilty of just playing with the firesteels. Not that I find anything wrong with that, but this idea of, "Oh, why use your edge in anything but a survival situation," just seems silly because I wonder why one would be using a fire steel in anything but a survival situation.

Practice.
It really isn't as easy to get a fire started with one as some people make it look. It took me a long time before I could get some mojo going with one, and it'll still take me a while to do it, most times.

It's really an "all else fails" thing in terms of survival. If my life is on the line, I'm going to start off by "cheating" and go from there. I'm not going to start with a bow drill or fire steel, I'm starting with a lighter and an accelerant -- if it's a matter of survival.

Then people suggest keeping a hacksaw blade as a striker, which is a good idea for survival (what if you lose your knife), but to me I wonder why preserving such a small portion of one's knife would be so crucial in a survival context.

I don't understand why, rather than bring a piece of a saw with them, they don't just use the damned striker that comes with them.

At the end of the whole discussion is the damage that can actually be done to the blade. If you use the part of the edge near the choil/ricasso, how much usable edge does it even effect?

That's really one of the worst places to use it.
You don't want to dull the blade from where it starts sweeping up to the tip, because most of your fine work gets done at that end, and you don't want to use when you need leverage or control under pressure, like when notching or making fuzz sticks, etc. You want to use the "no man's land" between those two areas if you're going to use the edge.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Because it doesn't lock and I use quite a bit of pressure. Also, the awl blade doesn't get used for much else by me. I use the point, but not the edge.

OK, on the models of SAK I have, the awl doesn't lock, either.

 

[texastonydobbs]

I find the awl on the Farmer SAK is the best vs. the awl on the Hiker model per say due to the pivot location on the knife and in relation to your hand and pressure applied to ferro rod.......
But then again I am Left handed :thumbup:

 

[Snow]

OK, on the models of SAK I have, the awl doesn't lock, either.

The awl doesn't lock on the farmer, but when you are applying pressure on the edge, it holds open. If you apply pressure to the back of the saw like was mentioned, it will fold closed.

 

[hlee]

OK, on the models of SAK I have, the awl doesn't lock, either.

The awl doesn't lock, but you can use the "edge" relatively worry free- as you probably aren't using the edge for anything else, and then you don't need it to lock.

I wear gloves, put my thumb on the blade of the saw, and then use the spine of the saw blade to strike a firesteel. If done correctly, the gloves aren't necessary.

 

[KennyB]

Practice.
It really isn't as easy to get a fire started with one as some people make it look. It took me a long time before I could get some mojo going with one, and it'll still take me a while to do it, most times.

It's really an "all else fails" thing in terms of survival. If my life is on the line, I'm going to start off by "cheating" and go from there. I'm not going to start with a bow drill or fire steel, I'm starting with a lighter and an accelerant -- if it's a matter of survival.


I don't understand why, rather than bring a piece of a saw with them, they don't just use the damned striker that comes with them.


That's really one of the worst places to use it.
You don't want to dull the blade from where it starts sweeping up to the tip, because most of your fine work gets done at that end, and you don't want to use when you need leverage or control under pressure, like when notching or making fuzz sticks, etc. You want to use the "no man's land" between those two areas if you're going to use the edge.

Yeah, but that's what I don't understand about the practicing aspect of it... Let's say you're fubar'd and all you have left is your fire steel and your knife, but you can't get the thing to start a fire because all you ever practiced with was a hacksaw blade or something? I mean it seems to be that people should practice with both if they're gonna put it in a survival context. The idea of, "Well, I'd use the edge of my blade if I have to," sounds good but then what happens when you've got to do it and you've never done it?

I'm not sure what you mean about cheating... I already asked why not rely on a Bic too.

As far as that "no man's land" area of the edge, that's down where the choil is for me. I'm also talking about a pretty small fire-steel that I got with my Izula though, so it would fit in there without touching most of the edge. However the other thing I meant was just that there's usually quite a bit of squared metal parts in that general area that one could use and avoid the edge all together for the most part. At least on the knives I've got, but then again they've all got squared spines except for the Izula. Might be a bit different with something like a KaBar USMC.

 

[Cougar Allen]

then what happens when you've got to do it and you've never done it?

I think you'll find it much easier to get good sparks with the edge of your knife than with anything else. No special practice with the knife is necessary. It has a better handle and a sharper edge than anything else you might practice with.

 

[kgd]

Yeah, but that's what I don't understand about the practicing aspect of it... Let's say you're fubar'd and all you have left is your fire steel and your knife, but you can't get the thing to start a fire because all you ever practiced with was a hacksaw blade or something? I mean it seems to be that people should practice with both if they're gonna put it in a survival context. The idea of, "Well, I'd use the edge of my blade if I have to," sounds good but then what happens when you've got to do it and you've never done it?

I'm not sure what you mean about cheating... I already asked why not rely on a Bic too.

As far as that "no man's land" area of the edge, that's down where the choil is for me. I'm also talking about a pretty small fire-steel that I got with my Izula though, so it would fit in there without touching most of the edge. However the other thing I meant was just that there's usually quite a bit of squared metal parts in that general area that one could use and avoid the edge all together for the most part. At least on the knives I've got, but then again they've all got squared spines except for the Izula. Might be a bit different with something like a KaBar USMC.

As cougar says, if the chips are down, you use what you need to provide what you need. If shelter is more important, and I have a firesteel and a knife that is all coated in anti-rust stuff, then I'll use the edge. If you know how to use a firesteel, then using the edge is a piece of cake as Cougar has said. Its the best scraper on earth.

If the chips are down and you have a bic and a firesteel. Chances are you'll use the bic first. It requires less practice to perfect the use of a bic as it does a firesteel. So you practice on what is difficult and not what is easy. Besides, you get to use your easy methods when you aren't practicing, you are just living. I probably need to practice with my bic more because I can't get them things to light fires all that good in wind. I'd probably do a weird thing like use my bic to ignite some punkwood and then blow a tinderbundle into flames. I'm just weird that way.....

I think people get way to paranoid about 'dulling' there knife. Use the knife to do what needs to be done and address your survival priorities as they come about. No point in going into a coma with water in your canteen. Drink some of that stuff and prioritize finding water. You gotta dig with that knife to find water? Do it....Its more important than having a sharp edge. You need fire but have to dull your edge? So what....

 

[OwenM]

The awl doesn't lock on the farmer, but when you are applying pressure on the edge, it holds open. If you apply pressure to the back of the saw like was mentioned, it will fold closed.

You're not applying pressure to the back of the saw. It's toward the side away from the firesteel, and the spine. >> |\