What is your point of diminishing return?

The most I've ever spent on a knife is $650. The least I've ever spend was $50 for 25 pounds of knives from the TSA. Somewhere in between is my sweet spot. My current EDC rotation knives run $60-$350. For them if they can't take it I don't want it. The rest of the knives I have are safe Queens. My plan is to sell them when I feel like it.
 
powernoodle said:
CM, I quite enjoy seeing that $10K watch on your wrist, and a $2K folder in your pocket. You have some serious style. It would be a sad day indeed to see you with a G-Shock, a Kershaw and a Kia.
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I'll always have that watch.



It's actually a $12k watch ;)
 
Im really done buying high end knives,trying to keep it under 300 now,which still isn't cheap by any means,but theres some great knves in that range. anything more and it really has to be something special. Im also really making sure I want it, im done buying them getting tired of them a few months later and selling them. CM, im shocked you sold those Damascus DDR's.those were real cool.
 
I have several folders in the $500-$750 range. They give me the performance that I like. Fixed blades max out at about $300, but some of these fixed blades are all about the wood, and excellent performance doesn't cost that much.
 
Returns start to diminish after about $150, I find.
But I generally carry knives costing from $200-$500...diminishing returns doesn't mean that there's no improvement with more cost, just that you stop getting as much extra for your cash.
 
I don't have a solid answer - and haven't for a long time. My maximum usable value of a knife is about $50 currently, but you rewind the clock 12 months and it was hovering around $450. I make more money now, but have different priorities.

These days, I'll spend quite a bit on a knife, but it's really just so that I can hold it in my hand and enjoy the craftsmanship. I've been carrying Schrade (I know!) and United Cutlery ( I KNOW! ) for months now, and haven't really felt all that worse for wear because of it. It's gotten to the point where I'm going to sell my 110v Manix that I had the box signed by Sal himself, in person, just because I don't really carry or use it anymore. Someone else should if I'm not going to, you know? I'm no collector, just someone with an appreciation and taste for quality knives.

I went a little crazy in the last couple weeks and dropped about $800 in the exchange and elsewhere. Now I have a bunch of knives, and I'm probably going to trade most of them for other knives and see what I can get my grubby little mitts on. As far as users go... The schrades I have will probably be modified and sold or given away.

I dunno, man. I had a brief discussion about this with a guy the other day. I said something akin to:
"I'm not under the delusion that I need a $200 to cut something, but there are a lot of little things that I appreciate about knives in that price range. A broken piece of glass, my mailbox key, a shard of resilient plastic - 90% of my cutting tasks could be resolved by any one of those and/or a pair of dollar store scissors. I just like to do things in a ridiculous way."

Which is pretty accurate.

Nobody you tell the price of your $500 knife to is going to see you as a wholly reasonable person unless they themselves share that same weird appreciation.

EDIT:
To answer the actual question in the title, I would say the point of diminishing returns lies around $160, which is a reasonable everyday price for an 0801, which I see as about as good as you can possibly get for the price range. Great materials, warranty, and fit and finish - miles beyond almost anything else in the range. Spyderco? You can get close with Spyderco. Benchmade? Not since MAP. Emerson? Not a chance. ZT has set the new price point where more money doesn't get you proportionately more quality.
 
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Pittknife said:
I just bought a $4800 knife and a $8000 knife, full customs from two makers that are regarded as the best of the best, books indefinitely closed ultra-exclusive blah blah. I'll be very blunt about this, it's still very hard for me to accept that I spent that much. I spent a lot of time wondering if they were really worth it. My conclusion involves 2 perspectives: 1. My value, in this case both are were worth it and I get giddy playing with them and taking videos of them, lol, 2. Market value, currently they are both worth it in value wise in the market. I've had multiple offers higher than what I paid by legitimate collectors. If they market value drops, then that perspective changes. I'm a collector so my valuation is based on the rarity and if I enjoy the knife in my collection.

My collection is all over the place recently, I've bought a $1500 knife, then the next day I bought a $150 knife I already have with the intention of modding it myself. I tend to stay in the higher-end range and I'm hitting the point where the value is not justified. For instance, I'm in the books for a Rexford custom but with no solid date. So I want to get a custom before then. Rexford customs start at around $6k for a basic now, the one I want is around $20k. That is a serious amount of money and pretty much my limit. I don't use any of these, they are strictly for my collection. I actually carry a kershaw cryo 2......that is about my limit for a user $30 lol

As far as the price versus value, its based on my collectors perspective. So the rarer, harder to get & gaudiness of it is what I'm after. Prices get exponential in that perspective.
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With all of the knifes you have and carrying a "lol $30 kershaw " you sir a really missing out on what our hobby is about. I only have 5 true custom knifes and all of the makers told me to use the **** out of them and when your ready send them back to me and I'll make them new again. So why not enjoy charring a real knife made for you or find a maker that makes a real knife.
 
I love the title of this thread because I'm huge on the concept of diminishing returns in my life. I like good value items, not the cheapest and not the best.

At one point I had about $10k in about 8 folders and it seemed ridiculous to tie up the cash so I sold them all.
Then I got the bug again and started collecting...I'm happpiest with about 3-4 folders in my rotation. Makes it easier to decide in the morning.

Most expensive stuff I've had
Rockstead TEI zdp - $1,800
Howard Hitchmough folder - $2,000
WD Pease mammoth ivory folder - $1,500

I like the price point of around $750 for a folder
$500 for a fixed blade
 
I would guess that my point of diminishing return is at about $50-80 bucks, That is the point I start getting critical about workmanship and materials. My price vs. value meter kicks in at that point.

The most I have ever spent on one knife is $160.00 and I had to fight with myself to spend that much.
 
[video=youtube;BNQULw8E8H0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNQULw8E8H0[/video]
 
For me it totally depends on the specific tool and its context of use. Think of the what, where, when, and how of using the tool and the frequency, intensity, and time spent on those activities. Then think of what the ideal tool for that set of conditions would be. Once you have the ideal figured out, consider the marginal utility of the money spent towards acquiring a tool that is as close as possible to that ideal. For every increase in benefit added to a tool there is usually a corresponding increase in price. If the enjoyment or functionality provided by the benefit is greater than the personal displeasure caused by spending the money to gain it, then the investment is worth it. Minimizing cost and maximizing functionality will increase the return on your investment. A lot of this depends on the criteria you set in the earliest stages, so think hard about it! :)
 
Good points Fortytwo. I tend to be a little less organized or methodical about my choices as I know that 6 months from now I will be going through the same thought process on another blade of some sort. I flip around from inexpensive to blades that I consider fairly expensive. But it is all about choosing a knife that works for you within your budget. Then unfortunately, we learn from that choice and do it again.
 
22-rimfire said:
Good points Fortytwo. I tend to be a little less organized or methodical about my choices as I know that 6 months from now I will be going through the same thought process on another blade of some sort. I flip around from inexpensive to blades that I consider fairly expensive. But it is all about choosing a knife that works for you within your budget. Then unfortunately, we learn from that choice and do it again.
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I'm not nearly as rigid in my methodology as my writing might seem, because I'm able to simply draw from experience and well-learned concepts so it doesn't take me more than a few minutes or even seconds to decide if something is an optimized solution. The less familiar with the approach, the more methodical you need to be to make sure you're not missing stuff, but the more familiar you are the faster and more off-the-cuff it gets. If you really start going into the meta-cognition of it it's really a bunch of loop processes where a change in one variable affects another, which affects another, which affects another. And so on and so forth. :D
 
This is one of those threads that has kept me checking in simply to read others' perspectives, despite being comfortable with my own. Great topic.
 
Pittknife said:
Hi Steviesterno,

That is very sound advice. I see a lot of guys reaching way beyond their means for custom knives. They tell me that they see some of my knives and feel they need a custom at that level too. I tell them that I've been in the corporate world for going on 16 years now, put myself through college and grad school and worked extremely hard. I won't and never will spend money that effects my retirement plan. I budget money every year for my hobbies, prior to collecting knives it was high end 1911s like wilson combat, nighthawk, ed brown etc. Every year I start off with a play fund, I never exceed it and absolutely never dip into any of my saving funds.

But, I'm for anyone that wants to spend money on enjoying their hobby. Life is short, we make our own choices and have to be happy at the end of the day. Right now, owning high-end custom knives is my passion. I'm moving towards making knives (2 year plan) for myself, not to sell. Once I'm able to make my own high level custom flippers, I'm not sure if I'll have the same value level to customs.

Speaking of guns, 2 years ago I wouldn't blink an eye on $3k 1911 but seriously would not by a $200 ZT knife. I thought it was outrageous price, fast forward to now....
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i hear you on that, and I do a Toy/hobby fund myself. basically it's a certain amount of money I pull every month AFTER all the bills are paid, savings built up, debts covered, etc. it's varied between $5 and $200 a month depending on the jobs I've had, but it's teaching me discipline. If I want a new 1911 to carry (and I do, but having a hard time justifying a DW CCO over a springfield, again, diminishing returns) I have to save up and wait. or sell some of my gear to help build the fund more quickly. this plan also seems to help me from buying something silly on impulse. If it seems like a good idea 3 months from when I decide I need it, I go for it.

I'm all for custom work and with you on the life is short. I saved up and spend a crazy (to me at the time) sum on a custom chef knife to give to my girlfriend. but in 3 weeks she's becoming my wife, and we use the knife every day cooking, which is fun and makes the knife worth it. it's amazing to see an adult woman giggle as she ninja slices a whole watermelon with zero effort.

diminishing returns are something we all have to deal with in every purchase. is a lexus nicer than a toyota? yes. will either get my dumb ass to my job every morning? I think they will.
and 1911s are the same. A $700 springfield will sling a 45 cal ball into a 3-4" hole every time. a $2k plus Baer/brown/wilson/etc will send it into a 1.5-2" hole. is that tiny bit of accuracy really worth it to triple the price? some say yes, some say no. but either way, we're all voting with our wallets every time we make a purchase.

I never thought I would carry a $200 bench made until I got a deal on one. Now I can't believe i was happy with a $20 folder. they both sat in my pocket and then cut stuff, so really who cares? it's fun, buy what you like that you can afford. after that it's just gravy
 
harkamus said:
I enjoy the teaching aspect tremendously. I guess right now, I just feel like a struggling graduate student. There are many things I hate right now, chief among them having to deal with students that plagiarize. I also hate grading. I guess that changes once you've become a professor; you get TAs. I'm a TA and an instructor right now.

Shooting is also my main hobby. I carry a custom CZ that is just shy of $2300.

Sorry for thread derailment.
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hate to break it to you, but cheating students aren't the worst of it when you get to teach. it's still terrible and I hate that someone would do that, but I don't think you've sat through curriculum development meetings. ugg. though I did get 5 free days off over the last 2 weeks due to snow, so it's not all bad ;)
 
Clanton said:
With all of the knifes you have and carrying a "lol $30 kershaw " you sir a really missing out on what our hobby is about. I only have 5 true custom knifes and all of the makers told me to use the **** out of them and when your ready send them back to me and I'll make them new again. So why not enjoy charring a real knife made for you or find a maker that makes a real knife.
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My reasons for buying knives are not the same as yours. I'm not missing the point, I'm missing your point.
I buy knives from a collector perspective. It's also insulting that you think thats "I have to find a maker that makes a real knife". That's a very narrow view.

I have no need to carry a high-end knife. I wear business attire, usually slacks, work in a corporate office with regulations and 99% of the time don't need a knife. When I do need a knife, that $30 kershaw will more than do the job, if I want to chop down a tree it will be with my chainsaw. I'm a collector, that means I like to keep my knives in mint condition, that doesn't mean those knives can't be used, I just choose not to.

You are also inferring that RJ Martin, Direware, Jake Hoback, Todd Fischer, Frank Fischer, Stan Wilson, Pohan Leu, Enrique Pena & a slew of other makers (because I have them in my collection) don't make "a real knife." I'm pretty sure more than a vast majority would disagree with you on that.
 
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Clanton said:
With all of the knifes you have and carrying a "lol $30 kershaw " you sir a really missing out on what our hobby is about. I only have 5 true custom knifes and all of the makers told me to use the **** out of them and when your ready send them back to me and I'll make them new again. So why not enjoy charring a real knife made for you or find a maker that makes a real knife.
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BTW, you seem to make a lot of opinionated and contradictory statements. You say this knife is usable and this knife is not, but have no problems with a knife with a big giant hole in the middle of the blade.

Also, look at your signature, you are selling a brand new "uncarried, never used" knife. So, I'm missing the point by not using my high-end customs, but you are not by buying a limited edition mid-range production and not using it? It's ok for you to not use your $410 knife, but it's not ok for me to use and bang up my $2-10k customs? I'm trying to understand your hypocrisy here, I'm also trying to understand why you seem to think you can judge knives without ever holding one or using one.

You should take that kershaw ruby, go cut concrete with it and then try to sell it, using your logic.
 
Pittknife said:
BTW, you seem to make a lot of opinionated and contradictory statements. You say this knife is usable and this knife is not, but have no problems with a knife with a big giant hole in the middle of the blade.

Also, look at your signature, you are selling a brand new "uncarried, never used" knife. So, I'm missing the point by not using my high-end customs, but you are not by buying a limited edition mid-range production and not using it? It's ok for you to not use your $410 knife, but it's not ok for me to use and bang up my $2-10k customs? I'm trying to understand your hypocrisy here, I'm also trying to understand why you seem to think you can judge knives without ever holding one or using one.

You should take that kershaw ruby, go cut concrete with it and then try to sell it, using your logic.
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I personally don't see the point in buying high end tools as art. A bit like buying platinum hammers and golden screwdrivers. However, everyone has their own thing, and their own money, and we all have different tastes. What kills me is when a custom or midtech has very mundane locks, materials or design. A lot of these midtechs couldn't slice butter without smashing it. :P
 
RemyKaze said:
I personally don't see the point in buying high end tools as art. A bit like buying platinum hammers and golden screwdrivers. However, everyone has their own thing, and their own money, and we all have different tastes. What kills me is when a custom or midtech has very mundane locks, materials or design. A lot of these midtechs couldn't slice butter without smashing it. :P
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Now that, I totally respect. Collecting is a completely different purpose. It's not for everyone and I respect that. I wouldn't tell people they are missing the point if they didn't agree with my perspective or infer some of the best makers in the world don't make real knives.

Thanks for your post, that is the perfect example of how to state your view without bashing everything else.
 
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