What I've learned in 6 months of knife collecting

OP welcome to BF!
You have learned all that in 6 months of knife collecting - that is actually very good! Keep it on! There is more to that.
Some people actually go to college and pay steep tuition fees to be told about Marketing. There is still lot to learn!
I would recommend you reading Kotler's "Marketing" - it is sort of classic. (That if you are really interested in all that conspiracy). And you do not have to read all of the textbook to benefit from it. It is really quite good and will broaden your understanding even before going into too deep to get boring for non-student.
So, good start. You will see eventually that the same principles apply to many other things. And not only things, but services too.

If you start thinking by yourself nothing will stop you - except probably for sex, drugs and rock'n roll... (But out of three only the middle one should be really avoided - listen to old man). :thumbup:
 
Ferrous Blader said:
[3] speaking of the next best thing, the whole 'super steel' school of thought [while I'm sure is based on scientific fact...I don't
know because I'm not a scientist] appears to me as nothing more than a sales pitch turned into hyperbole
by the general public. Steel -in it's infinite varieties- is not some rare thing.....is it? I mean,someone makes it rare by choice
rather than by supposed scarcity/availability. Diamonds for instance are usually expensive while being in fact very,very common and
thus paradoxically exclusive.
Click to expand...

I'm working hard to get my head around that one. I'm hardly a steel snob....but steel is not common. Maybe picking up a little science, in particular, metallurgy, would deepen your understanding of knives.

You don't just find steel laying around. It's not like they dig nuggets of CPM 3V out of some mine. There is a huge amount of research, development, and experimentation involved in creating a metal appropriate for knives. The process is costly and the products are rare for the higher-end steels.

You may not have experienced this in your 6 months of experience....but the higher-end super steels do perform better. The reason people, like myself, are not "steel junkies" is not because we don't feel the super steels are "better"...its because we are satisfied with the function/cost ratio of "un-super-steels" like AUS-8 or some "classic" carbon steels.

And where do you live that diamonds are "...very, very common"....what, you live in a kimberlite pipe?

Of course you are entitled to your opinions and tossing out a "manifesto" after 6 months is a bold move...best of luck to you in continuing your collecting or non-collecting.
 
just out of interest, to the op,if you had to,pick a knife or 2,before they fell into the abyss,to use it for building a shelter,prepping for a fire,prepping game,etc are they amongst your collection.
 
So to sum up, after 6 months of knife collecting you found out it wasn't for you. Congrats and cya later :)
 
The economics of steel and diamonds are only loosely connected insofar as the very basics of supply and demand (and you would need good tool steels to mine for diamonds :D). Boutique steels cost a lot (man hours, effort, equipment, testing) just to get to a production phase. The low(er) demand causes a high cost so as to recoup the R&D costs. Diamonds are somewhat naturally but also artificially scarce and the market is engineered to create demand (campaigns like "Diamonds are a girl's best friend", etc). Steel demand comes from physical need to solve a problem. Diamonds (except for the abrasives industry) come from the need to have something shiny / luxurious. I am not going to say that it is bad or stupid, but different needs are served by different markets.

I think of my time in school (B.S. and M.S. in Materials Science & Engineering) and have no trouble seeing the difficulty in creating these alloys. I got to see first hand the analytical effort to just categorize and map known processes, much less develop new ones. I think of all those Time Temperature Transformation graphs in my textbooks (especially those developed in academic / research environments) and realize that the datapoints are often obtained by grad student researchers (sure there's extrapolation, but less so in these cases, I would think). Sadly, I did not get do much metallurgy study in grad school. The school was more semiconductor focused. Eventually I hope to relearn enough to be the guy with the forge in my neighborhood.

The whole world of steel metallurgy is incredibly complex and deep. Think about what defines a hyper vs hypoeutectoid steel, then high carbon steels and stainless and the effects of impurities (either deliberately placed such as molybdenum or vanadium, etc) or unwanted (hydrogen embrittlement, other nasties if your processing is poor). The tech to get reliable processing and repeatable results so that knife 10 and knife 10000 have the same properties is just outrageous. I can see the OP point about the cost of a so called 'tool' fixed blade cost, but I think that is only true if you are never in a case where the applicability of "super steels" comes out. I am pretty sure that I won't be in a circumstance that I can really tell the difference between S30V and these fancy Bohler steels we're seeing, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate what it takes to get that in my hand. Sure, a piece of pig iron hammered into a point might do the job, but that just flat ignores what we've developed over these millenia. Think about the bessemer process and how that changed the world. Steel made the modern world and without it, the silicon world would never have come to pass. I am sure the some person who would never buy a $500 knife would rush right out to get the newest white plastic or aluminum Apple goody for the same money. It's just a function of what the person wants. That's choice.
 
marcinek said:
And where do you live that diamonds are "...very, very common"....what, you live in a kimberlite pipe?
Click to expand...

I'd just like to throw out some information on diamonds. Diamonds are actually common, just a vast majority of them do not meet "jewelry" grade quality. Even then however those that do are bountiful, so the largest diamond exchange does what any good business man does in his situation (Specially with the African Diamond mines).
They horde all the diamonds, and control the supply. They very literally artificially control the supply, from being "low on supply" to being "high on supply". Whichever is most profitable at times.

It honestly sounds to me like the OP does not use his knives very much, probably why he cannot see the difference between a high end knife that does not loosen over time or require as much sharpening as a lower end knife.
I've owned 4 cheap cheap under $4 knives (some american made). All of them cut maybe 10 feet of cardboard before becoming dull~, all of them now feel like they will break apart and are already loose like hell.

My Buck Vantage pro, while having a super steel (great edge retention) however the construction is not the best, and has slight play that no amount of tightening will fix. I will admit that knife was abused, so I am not surprised at the results.

The OP likely has not seen the benefits of better designed knives, with much more durable materials due to his lack of usage, thus it ends up with the list he made.
 
I'm only going to bother to address the first point. Reviews are, indeed, generally positive. That's largely because people don't buy knives that suck. I'm a professional reviewer of other products, and I get many of my samples for free, but even then, most reviews tend to be largely positive, because I don't bother requesting samples of products from companies that I don't like. If I were to review the Gerber folder that I purchased last year, I guarantee you would see a negative review. Honestly, most knives from a reasonably good company are going to be pretty solid. We read the reviews not to find out if the knife is good (we already know that it will be good quality), but to find out if the features appeal to us, how it holds up in cutting and comfort, etc. That being said, I much prefer picture reviews myself, rather than the video reviews. You can see details much closer up, and its easier to be thoughtful. Most people don't bother editing video reviews. You also can get more out of review if you know what you're looking for. I mean, you can see a positive review of a $30 kershaw and a positive review of a Darrel Ralph Mad Maxx. Does that mean they're equally good? Of course not. It means each is an excellent knife in its respective price range. What makes me sit up and take notice is when I see comments suggesting a 110 dollar knife can compete with semi-customs or other really high-end, for instance. When something performs better than you'd expect for the price range, I like to know about that.
 
Hello Ferrous Blader! Although your OP raises some interesting points, I think it's clear you're not a collector. After all, if you consider one who collects baseball cards and pays over $1k for a piece, there are those who might scoff at the idea of spending so much on a simple piece of printed paper. Nothing wrong with your opinions; you're certainly entitled to them. I hope you find some nice practical blades, get good/long use from them, and enjoy them safely... You might like the 'Great Outdoors' section on the Forum, where the focus is on use and other gear.

Take care! :)
 
Luis G. said:
I'd just like to throw out some information on diamonds. Diamonds are actually common, just a vast majority of them do not meet "jewelry" grade quality. Even then however those that do are bountiful, ....
Click to expand...

And yet I never seem to find them in my shoe. Rocks, yes...diamonds, no. So I guess it's all a matter of what one considers "very, very common."

MrFoo makes a great point, and its something you touch upon also. These super steels aren't being "hoarded" by manufacturers. So, yes, the diamond analogy kind of fall apart.

But...it's all academic really. Our friend found knife collecting isn't for him. That's fine. Not entirely sure why he chose to point his conclusion out in a place crawling with knife collectors...but more power to him.

I've always wanted to like olives....they are cool. But I just don't like the taste. Blech. I'm off to www.OliveLoversTalkForum.com to tell them so.
 
But it depends on the edge retention of a large green olive (lower curvature) vs a purple one! I guess I'll buy a 'user' black olive since those are cheaper.
 
Sure glad my collection and outlook are not as depressing. Get a new hobby perhaps.
 
MrFoo said:
But it depends on the edge retention of a large green olive (lower curvature) vs a purple one! I guess I'll buy a 'user' black olive since those are cheaper.
Click to expand...

Yes....I do feel that a more expensive purple olive is an absolute waste of money as food.

Olive companies, being no different than knife companies, are first and for most profit driven and will
sell you purple olives or olives with garlic cloves stuck in them only because the general public will always look for
the next best thing.

And I said all that over at OliveLoversTalkForum.com, and the facist/nazi mods over there banned me! So much for free speech!
:mad:
 
[1] Most knife reviews appear to be overwhelmingly positive only because most people
justify hard earned purchases than debase them.

This is true and not only for knives.
I'm also a member of a watch forum and you have to search really hard sometimes to find negative attributes.
Although I'm not sure money is a factor; I think most people are not as critical as they should when writing an opinion.

Congratulations on your honest post; it's something I have learned not to do on this forum. :thumbup:
 
the kid said:
Congratulations on your honest post; it's something I have learned not to do on this forum. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

And why do you feel you cannot express your opinion here, if I might ask? Just curious. I have found that everyone is completely free to express their opinions here.
 
Try watching a show like Pawn Stars or Auction Kings. I saw a guy pay over $4000 for an old Ty Cobb tobacco tin. I thought he was nuts, but that's just my view. I don't see the appeal in owning an old tobacco tin and I certainly don't see why it's worth $4000, but apparently to a collector that's what it's worth.

Some knives are rare collector pieces and others are tools meant to be used. Personally I don't feel a need to buy a $400 Busse. I'm not going to use the knife to its full potential so I don't need one that tough. For around $130 or less I can buy what suits my needs and wants. Sure I see a lot of amazing custom pieces in the knifemaker's section, but some of them are really just beautiful and I'd hate to tear them up and see them get scratched and abused, even if that's what the knifemaker wants. I'm not a collector. If I buy a knife I'm going to use it. Maybe someday I'll get into buying knives just to leave them in a display case, but for now I'm buying knives that I want to use.

I don't have the means to go out and buy dozens of knives to test out super steels. Judging by what some of the more knowledgeable members on here have to say about steels like M390, I imagine the super steels are worth the price. However, if you aren't going to use the knife to its full potential and you aren't buying a sprint run just to own a collector's item, then you have different needs and it's ok to not go out and buy an expensive knife. Buy what suits your needs or wants and let others do the same.
 
the kid said:
[1] Most knife reviews appear to be overwhelmingly positive only because most people
justify hard earned purchases than debase them.

This is true and not only for knives.
I'm also a member of a watch forum and you have to search really hard sometimes to find negative attributes.
Click to expand...
Actually, there's another factor, avoiding confrontations. I've received tons of hate mail, insults, etc, and had to go through bunch of flame wars, all because my reviews were negative about one thing or another. Besides knives, even ammo recommendations for desert eagle pistol were subject to accusations. Rabid fans are fact of life, and I can see why some reviewers don't wanna deal with them.
 
Yea, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's post, except that most of us probably already realize this and go "YOU DON'T SAY?!!?!" <--sarcasm
 
marcinek said:
And why do you feel you cannot express your opinion here, if I might ask?
Click to expand...

It's fun to feel like an oppressed martyr.;)

But much of what the OP says is just wrong, especially when it comes to different types of steel.
MAJOR differences in:
-corrosion resistance
-edge retention
-toughness
-and a bunch of other attributes as well.

Cheap knives CAN be okay, but if you pay more, with a reputable company (not all are) then you get more.:)
 
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