What kind of folder do you really want?

Y

yahooBlade

Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
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I would catagorize desirable folders into three groups, with cost from low to high.

Group A:

Knives like Buck 110, Ka-Bar Dozier, Victorinox SAK, Spyderco Byrd, and etc. They are at relative low cost of $20~$30. They often do not have the best blade or handle material due to the low price. However, they deliver excellent "bang for the buck". They do the work, and one will not feel much if the knife is lost.

Group B:

Knives like Benchmade 710, Spyderco Military, and etc. At a price around $100~$120, they are not cheap, nor really expensive. They have next to the best (if not the best) blade and handle materials. They are excellent overall, although they may not be perfect.

Group C:

Knives like Sebenza, Strider SMF, and etc. At a price of around $450, they are quite expensive. They often have the best blade and handle materials available on the market, and their quality is quite close to perfect due to strict quality control during manufacturing.

Here is the question: if you can only purchase one knife for daily use, you would choose a knife from Group A, Group B, or Group C? And please justify your choice.

Edit: I'd better reword "if you can only purchase one knife for daily use" to "if you can own only one knife at a time for daily use". This makes subtle difference, as the replacement of a knife would also be considered.
 
I would probably opt for a Group C. My use is pretty light and a Sebb could be carried wherever I go (junkyard/golf course). They would probably also out last me if I use it like I do all my other knives.
 
The price of C has never been justified to me from a functionality standpoint. Group A or B would work for me. I'd have no problem using a SAK, Buck 110, Opinel or Byrd Cara Cara. Due to the excellent functionality and lifetime of these tools I have an incredibly low desire to go with group B, and none for C. All my daily use knives currently come from A and they all serve me well. I've only had one QC problem with this group to date, out of over 50 purchases throughout my life.
 
I have to lean towards group B. I carry a Benchmade Ruckus (610) and have yet to be disappointed by it in any way. The fit and finish are as good as any of my C knives and it was only $159 :)
 
I'd have to go with Group B considering all my knives (and all the ones I want to get) fall into that category. Except the Native which I guess is cheap enough to fall into 'A'.
 
Most of mine, that I carry and use, come from either C or D (Semi-customs and customs, $450 to $1000). The joy of using a custom knife is what for me, makes this worth while. I don't have a knife that hasn't been used.
 
Blade Junky said:
I don't have a knife that hasn't been used.
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If I were going to spend as much as you on a knife, I'd use it too. What good is an absurd level of fit and finish coupled with high-end materials if they're never experienced the way a knife was meant to be?
 
If I wanted only one knife for the rest of my life, that would be a Sebenza. Probably a small or large Micarta inlayed one.

Sure, you can get more bang for your buck, but I'm only going to live once. Knives are a passion of mine, so why cheap out and settle for anything less than the absolute best? Plus, the cost of a Sebenza isn't much when you spread it out over the lifetime it will last you. It'll probably serve your grand children well too ;)
 
This little philosophical rambling might be out of place, but I wanted to write a little on my passions in response to Ikarus. If you're here to read strictly about knives, you can skip this BS.

I'm passionate about many things. Playing my bass guitar, studying knives and skateboarding. The latter most is my most extreme case of a passion. If I am walking anywhere that is paved cement, I simply feel naked and incomplete if I don't have my skateboard with me. It's the only thing I've ever felt any sort of addiction towards. The wooden part you ride on is referred to as a deck, and an average pro model deck usually costs 50-60$. I buy locally made blank decks that cost me 30$. I cheap out on the material object that matters most to me in life. I could pay more and get something more exotic, such as a deck with fiberglass reinforcement in the middle, but these 30$ ones serve me well.

I'm passionate about bass guitar. I have a 180$ bass and a broken 8 inch amp that is lent to me from a friend. Hardly the best equipment. If I weren't so cheap, I could have a 5 string fretless acoustic bass, 6 string electric and some nice amp equipment. The bass and amp I have serve me well though. Music is much the same way. When I drive, I have about 20 cassettes in my car and I usually rotate through 5 or 6 of them on my half-broken tape deck. When I had my MP3 player I could bring my entire CD collection (Around 400 CD's) with me when I drove and have better sound quality to boot. The MP3 player got stolen and I've been too cheap to buy another.

I know many people who still have their MP3 players. I see a lot of them listening to one song, then switching to another artist then repeating this process. Or putting it on random and, by their own admission, "Clicking next until it goes to a song I like." I know every song on every tape I listen to by heart. I can lay a tape on my dashboard with the stereo in my car turned off and still listen to it as accurately as if it were playing I know them so well. I think I get more enjoyment out of my 5 tapes I listen to than most people get out of their 2 thousand songs on their MP3 players. Likewise for my bass. I get so much joy out of playing and developing my skills that the thought of my lacking equipment never crosses my mind. In fact I haven't even thought about how bad my amp is until making this post.

I think the same holds true for knives. I experiment with the edge angles on my knives, find something suitable and hone them freehand until they're sharp and crisp, ready for use. If I don't like something abou the knife, I change it myself. Shaping an Opinel handle to feel more ergonomic, grinding a blade flat to the stone to give it better slicing capabilities or grinding away the serrations on an Endura I traded for because I prefer plain edge. I see a lot of folders on this site that cost hundreds of dollars and I see the pristine condition they're in and I know they haven't seen the use my 10$ folders have. I'm sure they're capable of it and in some scenarios will probably preform better than my Opinels, but I believe I've gotten more enjoyment out of my knives than someone who has never cut more than paper with his.

Based on my life I have to disagree with the idea that the enjoyment you get out of an object is based on the object itself. What I get out of skateboarding has never been about the brand of deck I'm riding and whether it's wooden, fiberglass or aluminum. The enjoyment I get out of playing the bass has never been lessened whether I am playing on my friends nice amp or playing with no amp at all. The joy I get out of sharpening a knife has never been muted by the fact that the hair popping edge I so proudly crafted myself for the first time belongs to a simple 10$ Swiss army knife. The best hi-fi system in the world would make my CD collection sound a lot better and I can appreciate that, but it's the feelings and emotions you draw out of the music and the comprehension that comes with that I feel is more important than sound quality. Some of my favorite music, old-school thrash, has some of the worst production in the metal genre, but the feelings I get from the music trump any importance that fact has. When I build a shelter with my Mora, it's not the knife I'm proud of, it's the human ingenuity and raw muscle that went into creating something capable of protecting me from the elements. I am the source of my pride and my joy, not the objects I hold in my hand.
 
I find group B to often be of better quality than the group C's. If you make 5,000 knives, you're going to have a better process than making 200 knives (not that you can't spend longer on the 200 knives for the price). Then again, the cheapies of group A are often of time proven quality, with thousands and thousands made, so their manufaturing process is near perfect with a design that has many flaws worked out. I would pick a knife from group B, Because the selection is far greater than group C, with (in my opinion) simular quality.
 
Everyone to their own...

There are as many tastes and needs and wants in the world as there are people.
And that's a good thing, otherwise life would be pretty boring.

I personally lean towards group C.
If I can only have ONE knife in my life and can afford it, why go for second-best or even third-best.
And the cost per day over a lifetime wouldn't ne that high. At least that's what I keep telling my wallet that's trying to hide in the corner now... :D

/ Karl
 
Most of my daily use knives fall into group B (BM 710, AFCK, etc.). I am confident in their overall quality, fit & finish and all. I keep my blades clean and sharp, and they have rarely, if ever, disappointed me.

Jubei
 
I have owned several knives from all three groups. When I got ready for my day and picked a knife to use, I almost always picked one from group C. Why? Because they are better, and I can afford them.

I can afford a Sebenza, a Strider, a John W. Smith etc... and I am into knives, so why not buy and use the best I can afford?

The knives in group A and B are all fine. But I can afford better, I enjoy using better, and I want better. After using a Sebenza, a 710 never really gave me the same feeling.

I respect Vivi's approach, but I think that if he were making $50K a year, he might see things differently. It is all reletive. To some people, a Sebenza is a cheap workhorse.

I don't make a ton of money, but all of my "fun money" is spent on knives. So in a way, I have a lot of "knife money". I have found it more enjoyable to spend my few hundred extra bucks each paycheck on Group C knives than a greater number of Group A and B knives. If I had less to spend, or only wanted to own a couple knives, then Group A/B would be more attractive.

And for people saying that Group B knives are as good or better than Group C knives, well, for me, that is 100% untrue. My SMF, Sebenza, and JWS Framelock were the best three folders I have ever owned. Compared to a 710, Manix, AFCK, Military, Bump, CQC7, etc... the more expensive knives just felt better, performed better (and I am not talking about pure cutting as much as overall performance and design), and had better fit and finish. If someone made a knife exactly like the SMF and with the same materials, for less, I would buy it instead of an SMF. But until anyone does, you have to pay $475 for the best designed folder in the world. The Buck versions are not nearly as good. I can afford the best users, and I want the best. I understand that some have a different opinion and only want the minimum that they need. When it comes to knives, them being my passion, I want the best I can afford and not the bare minimum that will do what I need. Different strokes. Maybe I am an elitist.

In the end, though, I don't use folders anymore at all.
 
I do not own any from group C. At this point in my life I have been using knives in group B (that is the majoity of my knives). If I could only have one knife I would probily would get something form group c. I have no problems carring group A knives mainly buck knives in that group. GroupA with the right edge seem to cut almost as good, if not as well as group B.
 
Great post Vivi!

I think I can see what you mean, even if I don't completely share your opinion ;)

I could save $350 or more by getting a cheap knife, but I can't think of anything else I would want to save that money for. I can afford group C knives, so I buy and use them. I like expensive super-quality stuff more than "cheap and good" stuff, I guess that's just the way I am :)

I could save money on everything and always go for cheap stuff, and would probably still have fun and get by fine. And when I'm old and ready to die I would have a big pile of money, but what good would that do me? You can't take it with you in the end, so I would rather go though life owning and using the best equipment I can get.

Like Karl5 said, it's good that there are different opinions, otherwise things would be quite boring :)
 
I already have enough folders from group A, I think most people that are into knives do that and then move on to group B. I don't have any from group C, but what I've found myself interested in mostly are in a different category entirely: nice, handmade fixed blades in the price range up to the low $200's, such as Doziers, Kreins and Ingrams. This category gives you a near-flawless knife with an attractive but durable handle material like micarta and G-10, that is made to be used. I can't afford the high $$ knives, and I don't really have much use for them either, but I can understand why some people buy them and really like them.
 
Good point Ikarus.

We all have a certain amount of "extra money" after bills and food and such. Some might have a little, some might have a lot. We all spend that money and things we want.

Some may want a cheaper knife and a new TV. Others may not want a new TV, and will just buy a more expensive knife instead.

We are all spending our "fun money" on things we want. It isn't about being frugal, it is about spending your money on what you want.

I play guitar and own 10 guitars and some very nice amps. Been there, done that. I don't really want any more "guitar stuff". I like cars and own a car I like very much. It is fast enough for me. No need to buy more speed parts.

So all I spend my money on is knives and beer. And in both cases, I pull no punches. I'd rather buy a few expensive beers and a few high-end knives than many cheap beers and many cheaper knives. I've done it both ways. Having "nicer things" makes me feel better. It may be vein, spending money to be happy isn't exactly noble in the first place.

Having a hundred 710s and a lifetime supply of Miller Light... I'm still not happy. Miller Light tastes bad (so 100 bottles is worth as much to me as zero bottles- I won't drink it) and a 710 doesn't give me a "knife high" anymore. Give me one Sebenza (makes me more happy than owning hundreds of lesser knives) and one bottle of Old Rasputin, and I am in heaven.

It's not about need. It's about "want" and "happy".
 
Torz- I think Dozier, Krein, and Ingram are definitly in Group C, or even higher. They are "cheaper" because they are fixed blades, but in terms of quality and performance, they are definitly in Group C.

The scale in the first post is for folders. You can't really apply fixed blades to it because fixed blades cost less for the same level of quality and materials.

But I am with you. All I buy and use right now are Doziers, and I am interested in Tom Krein and Gene Ingram.

I might start collecting Sebenzas just to have some folders, but I won't use them when I can use a Dozier (which is superior in ever meaningful way, IMO).
 
Ikarus said:
Great post Vivi!

I think I can see what you mean, even if I don't completely share your opinion ;)

I could save $350 or more by getting a cheap knife, but I can't think of anything else I would want to save that money for. I can afford group C knives, so I buy and use them. I like expensive super-quality stuff more than "cheap and good" stuff, I guess that's just the way I am :)

I could save money on everything and always go for cheap stuff, and would probably still have fun and get by fine. And when I'm old and ready to die I would have a big pile of money, but what good would that do me? You can't take it with you in the end, so I would rather go though life owning and using the best equipment I can get.

Like Karl5 said, it's good that there are different opinions, otherwise things would be quite boring :)
Click to expand...

I agree with that final sentiment, things are far more interesting this way.

I'm the type who prefers to work the most minimal amount I have to in order to obtain the things I need so I have the majority of my time free to use those things and enjoy them. A nice guitar and skateboard are of little use to me if I only get to enjoy them on the weekends. That's one of my reasons for being cheap. I value my time more than the objects I could get with working more often. I look over on the Busse forum and there are some nice knives photographed there, but it seems the people owning them rarely get to use them outside of playing around with them in their backyard. I'm happier with a 10$ Mora at my side and a full week to use it than being tied down at home with 300$ knives and no time to do anything meaningful with them. Of course if one can have both, all the better.

It's not about need. It's about "want" and "happy".
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This statement in particular stood out to me and I think with my response I again will be venturing off from knives. I've never come across someone that I felt was genuinely happy through their purchases in life. It takes something else, something money may help lead you to, but generally won't procure alone. My good friend is often very bored and uninspired with life. He works very long hours 5 or 6 days a week to buy himself the things he wants. He bought himself an old V8 mustang, an XBox 360, Nintendo DS lite, Ipod and is working on getting himself a new widescreen TV. He's still less entertained and satisfied with life than frugal me. I don't think being cheap or tossing your money around is going to bring you to happiness, I think it's more about personal outlook and perspective. I've seen a lot of people on these forums that in regards to knives come across to me as really jaded people. It seems like many people are expecting too much from them...a sense of entertainment, pride, joy...the high you talk about. For many here, knives have long gone past the realm of an interesting tool with many variables to be studied or, fo rthe custom purchases, art pieces to be admired; but are seen as a sort of holy grail in the modern world to keep in one's mind as they gruel away in a cubicle; something to make their life worthwhile. It strikes me as a sad way of looking at things, because I can't help but feel they're lacking something in their life and are seeking to get certain emotions and feelings out of inanimate objects that are never going to fully satisfy those needs. My friend is never going to be happy and content with life until he stops focusing on buying things for entertainment and starts to look inside himself.
 
It's not about working more hours, Vivi, it's about making more per hour.

I used to work two jobs and I found that I had a lot of extra money, but no time to enjoy it.

But now, working one job with decent pay, I have the time and the money.
 
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