What makes a good Survival knife ?

Allan Molstad said:
The dropped edge is an error found on most knife designs that try to use it.

While the dropped edge is fine for some knives,(such as a kitchen knife , that is best with a dropped edge) the sad fact is that the reason so many knives have a dropped edge is thats the way that are more easy to make.
And it only shows that the maker has never tried to cut anything with a dropped edge.

try to cut anything, even cardboard and you would see the error of the dropped edge design.

The dropped edge for a field knife such as a true Survival knife is a error.
The dropped edge will snag on everything each time it's used.
I think a good Survival knife would have a built-in design ability to become a spear point.
A dropped edge makes the worst spear point as it would be very hard to pull free from anything it got stuck into.

a true Survival knife needs a blade that flows from the handle into the cutting point. Nothing to snag, nothing like a guard to get in the way,,
The knife has to be able to reach into small places,

This is why i believe the "dropped edge" is always going to be a design error on a Survival knife.
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Are we talking a "drop POINT?" Or, are we talk a hollow ground bevel?:confused:
 
the dropped point is differnt.
there is nothing at all wrong with a Survival knife with a dropped point...infact that might be the best type of point.

However the dropped edge is where the cutting edge drops below the handle...I will try to find an example that does not belong to a forum brother....
 
Allan Molstad said:
the dropped point is differnt.
there is nothing at all wrong with a Survival knife with a dropped point...infact that might be the best type of point.

However the dropped edge is where the cutting edge drops below the handle...I will try to find an example that does not belong to a forum brother....
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In sections? or just in total, the edge is below the handle?
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gerber-BMF-Comb...ryZ63795QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Notice on this Gerber knife that the cutting edge drops down after the ricaso.

if anyone actually tried to cut even one layer of cardboard what would result would be that the knife cuts into the cardboard, then it would snag after the sharp blade is all the way in and the cardboard bangs into the guard...

this snagging makes it a error on most knives, more so on a good Survival knife
 
I see what your getting at, but thats not much more than an 3/16" below tha handle.

Do you mean that guard will make more of a problem? If it were to catch the bottom of the edge on cardboard, where you say it would snag, wouldn't you have to draw it from the tip of the edge down?
 
So, are you saying that the #4 would have this problem??

Im not understanding you on this, not making things difficult.

phpaonCsl_550-.75x550_61115.jpg
 
Fonly said:
I see what your getting at, but thats not much more than an 3/16" below tha handle.

Do you mean that guard will make more of a problem? ?
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he Survival knife cutting blade should flow to the handle and back,,,nothing at all to snag.

Even a small drop down is an error.
Makers have forgotten how blades are used, thats why so many makers like Gerber will design a big knife like this one, thats aimed at field use, and then slap on the dropped edge.

yes, the dropped edge is more easy to make over an edge that flows from the racaso, but that should not rule design on a Survival knife.
Function sould rule design here,

As for the guard being a problem?
Yes, I also thing that on a good Survival knife there is no need for a guard that would only get in the way of the knife being used as a spear.
 
Fonly said:
So, are you saying that the #4 would have this problem??
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If that knife is called the #4?
then although I dont understand some design parts of it's spine, the dropped edge at the ricaso is not so bad.

Im not sure this knife would have much of a snagging problem as the cardboard would run into the fingers and would likely be able to backout of the cut without snagging....
 
Yes, the first picture is the Grohmann #4, the reason I spoke about it is, though I have never used it on cardboard, I have used it in the woods, and its performed perfictly, but the Buck 192 I also have, doesnt bring up much problem either.
 
Allan Molstad said:
This knife has a very clear design flaw....it would snag with every cut,,,and would be more trouble than it's worth to use....
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heh, never had that happen, but does this only classify on cardboard, or?

I mean, neither knives I spoke have had any problem out in the bush, never snaged, or got caught.
 
yes, two things to always keep in mind.

You are a human, and the reason we are "top dog" of all the other animals is that our hands and minds have the ability to learn how to use anything...even a sharp rock to do what needs cutting...

the other thing is that I dont think the two knives you have posted are designed to be a Survival knife...I not sure what the #4 is doing, but the BUCK is a hunter....
and as a hunter it might do an OK job...
But a Survival knife has some slightly different needs, a slightly different design aim...

You dont do much "stabbing" with a hunter,,,I have never had to stab a deer..
I have never had to make a spear point to go deer hunting,
However if I had to stab a deer or a hog, I don't think the 2 knives in the photos would be the best knife for that Survival situation at all...
There is a very real design flaw in the Buck.
 
well, aside form the #4 being labeled as a Survival knife, I have to respectfully disagree with you. The #4 would work fine, but attaching it to a spear would be the last thing you would want to do, just sharpen the stick, keep your knife.

Though the Buck is a hunter, and will stay that, I only had it in for refrence to show what you were explaing. A design flaw as a survival knife yes, and the blade design isnt the only thing, it has a stick tang, and isnt the sturdyest knife, but it is a hunter.
 
what Im saying is that in most cases, the dropped edge is a design flaw that makers use because it might be a bit easyer to make.

I believe that most all knives that a guy would use in the field should never have a dropped edge, (except for camp and cooking knives)

as for what type of tang is best?
Well although the first thought we all have is a full tang, I have also seen that if the handle is designed right, then a sub tang can work too.

But if I were to design a real Survival knife that I knew would be taken into the wilderness and would be the thing that a guy needs to use to live?
Then I would go with a full tang, with Canvas Micarta handle slabs that can be removed with screws....

this would be a great knife to have in the woods. It would allow you to change many things about the handle set-up to allow for different situations...It would be also nice if the tang had holes drilled so that different uses of the tang could be found too.

Now I dont want anyone to look at their new BUCK knife now as if i cut it down,,,I just think that BUCK and many other makers just dont understand the way people cut things in the real world, and the real problems such a dropped edge is.
The BUCK in the photo is a nice knife,,,people love that knife Im sure,,,,I just think that it has one important flaw to remember when looking for that next knife
 
So we're talking about the choil here? The reason for a choil is that on big knives you can grab higher on the handle and put your index finger in that area as to gain more control of the blade on fine cuts. I can't see that the problems with it out rule the benefits but YMMV. I understand your argument. I can see for instance on my Ritter Grip that the little choil does snag and I don't care for it on my little pocket knife but I do like it on my bigguns.
 
Fonly said:
but attaching it to a spear would be the last thing you would want to do, just sharpen the stick, keep your knife.
.
Click to expand...

a Survival knife has to be able to do all kinds of things...because it might be the only tool you have, and your only chance to walk out of the woods.

I think being turned into a good spear is a real chance for any knife thats wants to be called a Survival knife...
 
Shotgun said:
So we're talking about the choil here? The reason for a choil is that on big knives you can grab higher on the handle and put your index finger in that area as to gain more control of the blade on fine cuts. .
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Yes, the reason for it is in error...There are way better ways to allow a finger to choke-up on a blade without adding this clear snagging flaw,,,,
The cutting edge should not stop like this at the ricaso, it so flow to the riacsao with no points in the way to snag
In the flawed-design knife I linked to - http://cgi.ebay.com/Gerber-BMF-Comb...ryZ63795QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
notice that the choil is clearly a snag waiting to happen.
I dont care how carefull a guy is, the design of the knife is working against good fast cutting.
To fix this design all you would need is for the cutting edge to flow right into the non-sharpened ricaso infront of the guard.
There is no real design reason for the huge cut out choil....
 
Allan Molstad said:
a Survival knife has to be able to do all kinds of things...because it might be the only tool you have, and your only chance to walk out of the woods.

I think being turned into a good spear is a real chance for any knife thats wants to be called a Survival knife...
Click to expand...

again, respectfully disagree, I dont want to be throwing my knife away wrapped to a poll. I'll sharpen some rock, or even bone, or heat treat the wood over a fire before doing that.

YMMV, but thats me.
 
Here is a little example of a knife http://www.coldsteel.com/60ss.html does not have the built-in design flaw of a drop edge.
Although this knife is clearly Not a field knife like we would want, but if the ricaso was just a little longer you would have plenty of room to place a finger there to choke-up on the blade for greater control.

There is no reason to think that a cut out is helpfull at all.

Now look at this knife http://www.coldsteel.com/16cc.html
now here is an example of a bad design ...notice that it's going to snag.
 
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