What makes a good Survival knife ?

snag on what though?, thats a chopping blade, the only way its going to snag is if you draw from the tip down to the ricasso.

I just cant visualize gettin a knife snagged, its never happend to me.
 
Fonly said:
I dont want to be throwing my knife away .
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Yes, you can "want" to do whatever with your own knife in the given situation...
Im not talking about wanting to do things a different way than me...

Im talking about built-in design flaws that limit what you "could' do with the knife.

knives with built-in design flaws like this are no big deal on normal use blades...
But for a true Survival knife you better not have such built-in limits....
For this type of knife you want a design that can handle even some crazy ideas....
 
Allan Molstad said:
Yes, you can "want" to whatever with your own knife in the given situation...Im not talking about wanting...

Im talking about built-in design flaws that limit what you "could' do with the knife.

knives with built-in design flaws like this are no big deal on normal use blades...
But for a true Survival knife you better not have such built-in limits....
For this type of knife you want a design that can handle even some crazy ideas....
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Ok, I can agree with that, you got me convinced! :D

I just mean to say, and this is personal, I wouldn't use my knife for a spear, untill it was a very last resource, I mean end of the road. Ill do everything in my power to do just that.

But everything other then that, Im clear on what you mean.
 
and the dropped point is also an error of design on almost every knife we can name....

Except for camp and cooking knives, (they should always have a dropped edge.)

But on most every other knife the dropped edge is there only because it was a little more easy to make the knife that way, and thats all..

There is no real reason for the dropped edge with the built-in snag
 
I only have one knife with the " dropped edge", and thats the buck 192, but I use it for hunting, and game processing.
 
Fonly said:
thats a chopping blade,.
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Almost every knife I see posted on the forum has the dropped edge.

I just hate em all ...
I really think that makers get tempted to add a finger cut out infront of the guard thinking thats really going to make the knife "extra handy"
But the sad truth is that addition will get totaly in the way of using the knife.

When you attempt to cut anything with a dropped edge knife and have it snag on you a few times, what normally happens is that the person has to change the way they were attempting to cut.

Look at this knife for example - http://www.coldsteel.com/16cc.html
You just know that it's going to snag if you try to make use of the full blade.
So after a few snags and repositions, the person will start to stop the cut way short of the dropped edge.
this means that even if the knife has a monster foot long blade, you only dare use the first few inches when cutting.....
This will only work to put the controling fingers even farther from the work, and that means even more lack of control.

Lack of control was the reason the maker added the dropped edge, choil cut-out in the first place.

So what happend was that the maker's attempt to make his knife more easy to control, actually made it harder to control.
 
How many times have you had this happen with the knife style you explain?

Are there any production knives you can think of that you have used and had this effect?
 
I have to admit this discussion has got me re-thinking the way I look at blade design. Especially the choil/dropped edge.

Allan, why do you say a drop point is almost always a mistake? I have drop points on most of my knives and like them quite a bit. I use mine almost exclusively in camp and kitchen, but I know a lot of hunters who swear by their drop-point knives.
 
I like drop point as well, but i think he meant Drop edge, like in the link to the CS knife (lerado bowie?).
 
The cs link shows a clip point. I have never heard of a drop edge. I prefer drop point for its strength, but I do own a few knives with a clip point. Besides stabbing, the clip point is useful for poking or digging into tight spots. Sure there are better tools for that job, but I like the multitask function of a knife.
 
Guys correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are talking about is a camping knife :confused:
I mean you go camping in the woods, you DON'T go surviving.

A survival knife is the one you have with you, when you jump on your bike to go buy a can of paint.

It seems to me that survival situation happens other places then in the woods, right:)

When you go wood bumming, you will have put some thought into it, so you will not end up in a survival situation. And you have the proper gear with you (Good knife, fire starting stuff ect ect :thumbup: ).

So one thing that makes a good survival knife is being able to carry it with you when not in a survival situation (A good example might be the Ritters RSK MK1, light and strong, but more important is that chances, are you will have it with you when it counts. If your going walkabout in the woods you'll probably have your busse, dark ops, bat utility super knife with you anyway:) )
 
Those dropped edges are really awesome for the cutting board though - especially if you don't have a guard interferring :)

I know this is a survival blade. But honestly, how often does a person really begin a cut from the guard onward or how often does one induce a stabbing motion right through the blade? If this were to happen, it mostly be a reckless action - like extreme slashing behaviour and I would submit the person is throwing caution to the wind. One could probably come up with bear fighting or other survival scenarios where this might occur. Yet I have a hard time believing that this would become so imprinted as a problem that I'd start to only use the first 3 inches of my 10 inch knife.

I would agree with the earlier posts and suggest that the user, having knowledge of their knife and its limitations and being conscious of their environment (i.e. thinking about their actions) would over-come most if any knife design issues.
 
Hawkings said:
Guys correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are talking about is a camping knife :confused:
I mean you go camping in the woods, you DON'T go surviving.

A survival knife is the one you have with you, when you jump on your bike to go buy a can of paint. . . . :) )
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At least somebody here gets it. :thumbup:

If I'm in a survival situation and my knife snags on cardboard, I'll be thinking "At least I have a knife" ;) then "Where did all this carboard come from?"
 
Allan Molstad said:
The first link shows the wrong type of knife to be sure, but it has the type of edge that i think is needed for the type of knife we are talking about.

notice how easy this knife could cut and not get snagged.
notice how easy this type of design could be converted into a spear point.

Then see the 2nd link and how that knife is a snag waiting to happen..
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Allan I cannot ever imagine what you are describing happening, however I could quite easily see a hand slipping down onto the blade of the first knife you show from Coldsteel.I think with wet or bloody hands that first knife is an accident waiting to happen.:eek:
 
GibsonFan said:
Allan, why do you say a drop point is almost always a mistake?

.
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GibsonFan - the dropped "point" is fine,
It's the dropped "EDGE" thats the flaw.
(So we are talking about two totally different parts of the knife)

Look at the lower edge of the two examples I have found -
http://www.coldsteel.com/60ss.html http://www.coldsteel.com/16cc.html

Do you see how the lower cutting edge of the first knife flows well right into the non-sharpened ricaso area?http://www.coldsteel.com/60ss.html
Now if the ricaso were just a little longer then there would be plenty of room to place a finger there for more control.
Any cutting you do with this design will not snag. You can make use of the full blade for doing strong cuts!

Now look at the 2nd blade for an example of a built-in design flaw.
Notice how the cutting blade stops just before it gets to the guard?http://www.coldsteel.com/16cc.html
This is a design flaw that you know gives the blade a 100% chance of snagging there if you try to use the full length of the blade for cutting!

This high chance of snagging the blade will cause the person to always stop the cutting short of the choil cut-out . This means you cant use full-force cuts, the same type you may need to be able to do in real survival situations.

So because the normal way to keep the blade from snagging with every cut is to stop it early before it goes too far, then there is no point to the maker even sharpening the last 1/3 of this knife. no one will dare use that part anyway.
so although the knife "looks" all nice and big, the reality of the matter is that it's got a shorter usable blade.
 
pit man said:
however I could quite easily see a hand slipping down onto the blade of the first knife :
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The design aims of a good "survival" knife are different than the design aims of a Fighter, or a Hunter, or a camp knife.

Look at the most common kitchen knives.
They have no guard.
They are used in the kitchen, mostly used dripping wet, and mostly used by girls with less upper body strength.
Yet they have no guard?

Why would such a knife that you know is always used around or even UNDERNEATH water not designed with a guard?

The reason is that the design aim is for the expected use of the knife.
The same is true for a good survival knife.

Now you can have a guard on a survival knife it's not that big of deal.
Or you can design the handle to act as a guard.
My thoughts about a lack of a guard is based on the concept that a good survival knife should have the ability to be turned into a spear.
It could still be a good spear with a guard, but the guard might also get in the way.
But the guard is NOT a design flaw like the dropped edge is.
 
kgd said:
But honestly, how often does a person really begin a cut from the guard onward or how often does one induce a stabbing motion right through the blade? .
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The dropped edge is a design flaw thats common on most every knife you will ever see.
Most of the knife photos I have seen posted on this forum have dropped edges.
The makers must all think that the dropped edge is the best way to go?

I think they are all wrong.

look at how the dropped edge of this knife http://www.coldsteel.com/16cc.html is sticking out there ready to snag anything on the return stroke.
This blade will snag anything that you push-cut to the guard too.
That means that the owner will also learn to be carefull and to always stop a push-cut before it reaches the choil.

So whats the point in haveing a nice long blade that you dont dare use the full length of?

There is no point to it.
The dropped edge is a flaw.

Not only is the full length "push-cut" getting snagged, it is also the full length "pull-cut"
If you own a knife that has 8 inches of cutting edge, then you should be able to use all of it. You paied for it!

Whereas a different design like in this example - http://www.coldsteel.com/60ss.html allows the owner to make full-length cutting strokes!
You can make nice big strokes, the matterial will flow against the full length of the cutting edge and will not snag.
 
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