What makes it a....

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“A sheepfoot blade has an edge that is parallel to the spine or back of the blade. A lambfoot has a distinct distal taper, making the tip narrower than the area meeting the tang.”

The top is a lambsfoot. All 4 are wharncliffes, AFAIK.
 
ferider said:
“A sheepfoot blade has an edge that is parallel to the spine or back of the blade. A lambfoot has a distinct distal taper, making the tip narrower than the area meeting the tang.”

The top is a lambsfoot. All 4 are wharncliffes, AFAIK.
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Thanks. I hate to stay awake at night wondering about these kind of things...
 
Top down... Wharncliffe, Sheepsfoot, and Lambsfoot

The Wharnclife has a rounded top spine with a very fine point
The Sheepsfoot get wider as you approach the tip and the abruptly turn down
The Lambsfoot gets narrower as you approach the tip and the abruptly turns down

The Lambsfoot is not as fragile at the tip as a Wharncliffe, yet has a finer point than the Sheepsfoot... making it ideal in some eyes.

 
From top to bottom --
sheepsfoot
lambsfoot
wharncliffe

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I’ve read the typical wharncliffe comes to a sharp gradual point, the sheepsfoot is parallel all the way down to a rounded off point, on the lambsfoot the spine to edge distance narrows toward the tip and it has a sharper more angular point than the sheepsfoot, and I heard the blades that get wider toward the tip called a “ramsfoot”.
 
ferider said:
All the Wharncliffe requires is a straight edge.
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That's not true, a wharncliffe blade has a distinct shape with a gradual taper almost from the shoulder. Sheepfoot, lambfoot, coping (or cut-off pen), and square point or rope blades all have straight edges but are in no way considered wharncliffe blades.

Eric
 
This is my understanding:

All of these blades have straight edges, but different profiles.

lambsfoot - edge and spine slowly taper together
sheepsfoot - edge and spine are parallel
ramsfoot - edge and spine slowly taper apart

All three abruptly turn over in a rapid transition at the end.

On a wharncliffe, the turnover of the spine begins much sooner and it comes to a much sharper point, as shown above. It is a shape distinctly different from lamb/sheep/ram foot profile.
 
ea42 said:
That's not true, a wharncliffe blade has a distinct shape with a gradual taper almost from the shoulder. Sheepfoot, lambfoot, coping (or cut-off pen), and square point or rope blades all have straight edges but are in no way considered wharncliffe blades.

Eric
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Today, they are, as long as the edge is straight. For instance, from https://blog.knife-depot.com/history-of-the-wharncliffe-blade/:

“Anecdotal evidence says that Lord Wharncliffe wanted a knife with a thick and strong blade. The result was the blade known as the Wharncliffe.
The original Wharncliffe blade had a rounded spine that tapered gradually toward a point and a straight full flat-ground edge...The standard definition has since broadened a bit to include any blade with a straight edge that tapers toward a point.”

Including, for instance, the “broken back” Wharncliffe, etc.
 
ferider said:
Today, they are, as long as the edge is straight. For instance, from https://blog.knife-depot.com/history-of-the-wharncliffe-blade/:

“Anecdotal evidence says that Lord Wharncliffe wanted a knife with a thick and strong blade. The result was the blade known as the Wharncliffe.
The original Wharncliffe blade had a rounded spine that tapered gradually toward a point and a straight full flat-ground edge...The standard definition has since broadened a bit to include any blade with a straight edge that tapers toward a point.”

Including, for instance, the “broken back” Wharncliffe, etc.
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That so-called "standard definition" was obviously arrived at by folks who don't have a clue or are too lazy to actually do a little research into what the different blade patterns entail. You can't just lump a pile of different straight edged blades into one style. Those different patterns have been around for well over a hundred years along with their respective monikers. Now all of a sudden they no longer exist? That's like calling every sports car a corvette. I don't buy it. A wharncliffe blade is just that, with it's own distinctive shape. It's most definitely not "any blade with a straight edge that tapers toward a point". I don't even want to know what a broken back wharncliffe is, geez. Let me guess, a tactical knife blade that looks more like a modified utility knife blade.

Eric
 
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ea42 said:
That so-called "standard definition" was obviously arrived at by folks who don't have a clue or are too lazy to actually do a little research into what the different blade patterns entail. You can't just lump a pile of different straight edged blades into one style. Those different patterns have been around for well over a hundred years along with their respective monikers. Now all of a sudden they no longer exist? That's like calling every sports car a corvette. I don't buy it. A wharncliffe blade is just that, with it's own distinctive shape. It's most definitely not "any blade with a straight edge that tapers toward a point". I don't even want to know what a broken back wharncliffe is, geez. Let me guess, a tactical knife blade that looks more a modified utility knife blade.

Eric
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It was also probably done by people who think the upside down drop point blade on their modern folder is actually a sheeps foot even though the edge is not straight.

I will admit that I could certainly name the 3 properly , but I didn't not really know what made them so.
Never knew the history behind them, just knew what they looked like.
There was probably a time when I would have called a lambs foot a coping, and a time before that when I'd have thought of any as a sheeps foot.
 
That definition is not only ill-informed but preposterous"has since broadened a bit" By whom and when? By the same token, if all a Wharncliffe blade needs is a straight edge then you could apply that to knives with belly or curve. In other words, all knives with belly are Clip knives full stop. No more Spear, Drop-Point, Turkish Clip, Pruner, Hawkbill , Cotton Sampler etc.

Lord Wharncliffe was obviously a sponsor and enthusiast of cutlery but it appears that the blade that became known as a Wharncliffe emerged in the early c19th in England and this has remained the SAME on Traditional knives (which is what we are talking about here...) since. Other straight edged blades such as the Sheepfoot and Lambfoot might well be offshoots of the Wharncliffe, inspired by its shape and practicality yet they have clearly different characteristics and their own appearance . During the c19th English cutlers and likely others made a distinct pattern known as the Norfolk which could have from 1-3 blades with the Master always being a Wharncliffe. Named after, I assume, the famed address of Norfolk St.

If I break the tip off the Sheepfoot on one of my Stockman knives does it then become a Wharncliffe? Obviously not. Take a look at a GEC 82 Dixie and compare its straight edged blade-Wharncliffe- with a more conventional Stockman's Sheepfoot, utterly different. Likewise, the Lambfoot knives already shown, similar but distinctly different.

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He's definitely referring to the "definition" the modern tactical knife crowd uses. At one time slapping the wharncliffe (or warncliff) name on various knives in an effort to beel "cool". Such an example of the tactical manufacturer's can be seen in the current "cleaver" trend. Just dona image search on Google to see all kinds of weird tactical "cleaver" blades.
 
Quoted sections below, excerpted from A.G. Russell's Knife Encyclopedia ( https://agrussell.com/encyclopedia ).

They didn't specifically include a definition for a Lambsfoot blade. But the other two are described below:

Wharncliffe Blade​

A blade with a straight edge and an almost needle like point
Lord Wharncliffe, probably Edward Stuart-Wortly, 3rd Baron Wharncliffe later Earl, was a patron of the then 200 year old cutlery firm of Joseph Rodgers & Sons of Sheffield. He designed a knife for them that still carries his name.
While he designed a complete knife, it is the Wharncliffe blade that through history has been the star. Today, it is one of the most popular put into folding knives. The blade was unusual in several respects, it was almost twice as thick as most blades of its size, it was ground to a thinner edge before sharpening and it is tapered to a finer point than normal. When those conditions are added to the unusual shape of the blade, a straight edge, like the pre-existing Sheepfoot blade, the very sharply curved back and the taper from the choil to the point, you have a MUCH finer point which makes this blade much more useful in many situations. It does not make a good skinning knife.
The thickness at the back of the blade lends strength allowing an edge without so much risk of blade breakage. The Wharncliffe blade was often used as the main blade in a whittler pattern folder, with two smaller blades making the knife even more useful.
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Sheepfoot Blade​


Has a straight edge with the back of the blade falling in a strong curve to the point of the blade.
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waynorth said:
This whole thread underlines the importance of reading, and understanding History!!
And shows the damage the screwed-up, un-informed statements of opinion and advertising can do to our ability to talk to each other!!!:mad:
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Take it easy, WN: we are just talking about a language term that has changed over time and not just for me, but for many other people. Not just for advertising, but to name a variety of knives with straight edges. It happens, the original Wharncliffe was conceived in the early 18-hundreds, and many other English words have changed over the same time period (see, for instance, https://ideas.ted.com/20-words-that-once-meant-something-very-different/).

Misplaced Hillbilly said:
He's definitely referring to the "definition" the modern tactical knife crowd uses. At one time slapping the wharncliffe (or warncliff) name on various knives in an effort to beel "cool". Such an example of the tactical manufacturer's can be seen in the current "cleaver" trend. Just dona image search on Google to see all kinds of weird tactical "cleaver" blades.
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I never said anything about tactical. You can search my history here on BF, and you will find several posts expressing that I don't believe in using knives "tactically", but that I am a user/collector of some traditional and other modern knives. I suggest you go to Arizona Custom Knives and search for the term Wharncliffe, and you will find a large selection of knives, some tactical, others not, and even some broken back slip-joint non-tactical "Wharncliffes", like this one:

i-J5HG52H-L.jpg


Speaking about history, you can make a good argument that Lord Wharncliffe's design originated in the Saxon Seax, which often was broken back to begin with.

Bottom-line for me: the Wharncliffe term is not trade-marked, and is being used by many manufacturers. It's your choice to exclude them in the definition of the word. I won't.

That being said, you all carry on by yourselves. I'm off to break down some boxes with one of my Wharncliffes :D

Roland.
 
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