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what should I buy for sharpening?

My facts are not straight in saying that SR-101 is a steel of chemical composition related to 51200 with different grain size, alloy distribution and heat treat that give it different physical properties in a cutting tool? I don't think anyone will disagree with that statement. As for supersteel performance, I'm sure we can dig up some side-by-sides on here that were executed by industry professionals that will show SR-101 competing with designated 'supersteels'. Thus I have no idea how you can say that my facts are not straight, because these are simply the facts that I stated.
 
PayetteRucker said:
My facts are not straight in saying that SR-101 is a steel of chemical composition related to 51200 with different grain size, alloy distribution and heat treat that give it different physical properties in a cutting tool?
Click to expand...

correct me if i'm wrong: 52100/SR-101's grain size is developed during the heat treat process, not in the raw steel. if the chemical composition is the same and both steels are given a similar heat treat, the end results should be the same. 52100 and SR-101 are both low alloy, high carbon steels, there is no pixie dust involved. 52100/ SR-101 is a very good performer with a good heat treat.
 
Your making it sound greater than it is. No doubt its a very good steel but it is not super hard or too hard for waterstones, diamonds are beast at reprofiling BTW, and your chemical composition grain size comment is just confusing. About super steels, why yes, it will keep up with super steels and at the hardness its ran from swamp rat I'd put it around S30V level with longer retention of keen sharpness. At 62-64 RC it will hold with CPM-M4.
 
Absolutely, when it comes to edge retention it is among the best. Grain size is dependent on alloy and heat treat, that is correct-as well as the initial melting and molding process. Things like the partial metallurgy process affects the end result as well, hence my statement about alloy distribution and grain within the steel. I don't think there's any hard data on what the exact composition of SR101 is, or the heat treat for that matter. There is much variation in low alloy high carbon steels, and pixie dust need not be involved to acquire high performance out of high carbon steel.
 
Particle Metallurgy has nothing to do with composition, but of the initial process in melting and molding the stock steel, and there are many different processes within the melting and molding of stock that will affect grain size and distribution. According to the supplied source, while the main elements of 51200 and SR101 are quite similar, though there are differences in quantity as well as trace element composition. What kind of differences in particular that may have on the performance of the end result again will vary on heat treat and alloy prep.
 
To start there is no such thing as "partial metallurgy process" and grain size will not be determined in the forming or melting of the blade steel not to mention these are not forged blades.
 
I forgot the damn C in 'partical', excuse my arthritic hands-they've been cranking out term papers all week. Grain size absolutely dis determined in forming and melting of blade steel. I don't ever recall saying that these WERE forged blades. They are ground from stock. That doesn't mean the stock didn't go through processes of preparation to alter factors like grain process...
 
They don't have to be Crucible steels to use particle metallurgy or other proprietary processes. Bohler Uddeholm and other sources also have their own particle metallurgy treatments. I don't mean the first heat treat process, I mean melting, as in constructing the alloy and stock from raw materials from the steel source.
 
Your right others do make PM steels but SR-101/52100 is in no way shape or form a PM steel.
 
You know this how??? From my understanding Busse doesn't release their source or the proprietary treatments of the source or of Busse themselves. There are many ways to alter grain structure before they even get their hands on the stock.
 
Your saying a bunch of technical words you don't know the meaning to, take some time and do some research.
 
Sigh, I know exactly the words I am saying, and I did my research both before and after I opened my mouth. Busse does not release the source of their steel, the treatments from the source or of Busse themselves, that affect the properties of the steel itself. We know the composition is SIMILAR to 15200, that it's a damn hard steel that holds its edge considerably longer than all but the highest quality steels at its hardness, and that Busse claims (with the credibility and respect of the field) the steel is special. Based on my own experience with my HRLM, it carves up my stones without doing much of anything to the edge, and that aluminum oxide based wet-and-dry sandpaper was a cheap alternative to destroying a set of waterstones. I really have no idea what your issue with me is other than nitpicking and insinuating personal insult to try to save face with your side of the argument. Not only that but your attacks have completely derailed a thread asking people for their personal input to begin with, which is exactly what I did, within the parameters of the question. Instead for whatever reason you have to turn this into an I-know-more-than-you-oops-maybe-not showdown that has absolutely no constructive purpose than to throw your muscle around and attempt for political gain on an internet forum that otherwise is a means for people to constructively discuss their hobby, investment and job.
 
You are saying a bunch of stuff that makes no sense and instead of confusing the OP and others I decided to step in and try to help and correct the misinformation. All busse steel composition and even INFI's heat treat process was laid out in a BF post by non other than Jerry himself. And again the steel is not all that hard, below a 60Rc, it is not a PM steel, its composition is known, grain size can change in heat treat.

Also, wet/dry paper is silicon carbide.
 
Gatorgrit is aluminum oxide. Check your facts. If Jerry laid it all out, I sure would like to see it, it would have certainly settled this issue much easier than griping at me. And I never said it was a PM steel, I said there are other factors that affect grain size and alloy distribution. I simply listed PM as an example. The steel may be listed below 60 Rockwell, but other properties certainly account for its incredible resistance to wear and sharpening.
 
You only said wet/dry.

I'm not griping at you, your getting defensive with a subject you are not clear on.

Search for it its been posted many times.

You made direct relation between PM steel and SR-101, I was not the only one to notice.

52100/SR-101 is known to be more wear resistant hence the longer edge holding and sharpening difficulties.


I'm done.
 
I did not make a direct relation. I stated that there were factors other than elemental makeup and heat treat, like PM, that determined grain size and alloy distribution. I'm defensive because you are OFFENSIVE. Your waiting til this moment to inform me of other official sources makes me wonder if you weren't trying to pick a fight in the first place. That wear resistance is what i was referring to in the first place, and it's incredibly hard on water stones-at least the ones I attempted to use in the first place. Hence the simple, practical, inexpensive and efficient solution of wet and dry on a sanding block. It boggles my mind that you have such an issue with simple solutions as an alternative to your own that you'd go so far out of your way to blast me like this in a general forum, derailing a constructive thread in the process.
 
LOUD NOISES.......AGGHHHH......heheheh. alright well I guess Ill try the stones then. *walk away mumbling about thread hijacking lunatics
 
If you are interested in freehand sharpening, I strongly recommend picking up Murray Carter's DVD's: Intro to Sharpening, and Advanced Blade Sharpening. They are full of really good info.

I also recommend hanging out at the Keeping Sharp section at knifeforums.
 
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