What should I look for in a rifle and why?

I agree with the 30-06 idea. You can pretty much find it everywhere and use it on everything in NA at reasonable ranges.

I have to take some exception to those who are at least implying that Savage doesn't make a quality rifle. Quality to me means good quality parts, design and operation. Savage does that in spades. And its known as a highly accurate rifle, and inexpensive. The accustrigger is also revolutionary, in thes highly litigious times.
 
Shann said:
I agree with the 30-06 idea. You can pretty much find it everywhere and use it on everything in NA at reasonable ranges.

I have to take some exception to those who are at least implying that Savage doesn't make a quality rifle. Quality to me means good quality parts, design and operation. Savage does that in spades. And its known as a highly accurate rifle, and inexpensive. The accustrigger is also revolutionary, in thes highly litigious times.
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No one is saying that Savage is not quality, or even implying it.

What is being said, is that for roughly twice the cost, or much less for used, you have the foundation for what is arguably the premier action available on the modern market.

The Savage will never be anything than what it is: reliable, accurate and inexpensive. It is like the Ka-Bar knife of the gunworld.

A properly massaged Remington can be anything-Could be a Loveless, could be a Brend.

It will increase in value as you do more to it, and it WILL become a better performing rifle.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marineweapons/l/blm40.htm

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The Savage will never be anything than what it is: reliable, accurate and inexpensive. It is like the Ka-Bar knife of the gunworld.
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Great analogy!
Until now, I've used the phrase "meat rifle"
 
I would suggest you try and find a way to test fire a few calibers to see what suits you. You also need to ask yourself if you are ever really going to hunt a moose. If what you really need is a deer rifle that could be used on an elk in a pinch I think you should look at a lighter caliber than 30-06 or 7mm magnum. I think that you should compare a 30-06 to a .270 and see what you prefer. You can find .270 ammo just about anywhere and it is a nice flat-shooting round. For elk you want to be shooting at under 300 yards, but for deer it will do the job without making a mess. If you expect to do any target shooting smaller calibers are the way to go.
 
Kohai999 said:
A properly massaged Remington can be anything-Could be a Loveless, could be a Brend. It could even be built into the rifles that my buddy Aaron owns.......:D
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Can't help but show off what a Remington can be made into.....
GA Precision M40A1 (built 100% to spec)
Brea008.jpg

US Optics MST 100 for above rifle
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GA Precision SnipersHide Limited Edition w/ US Optics "Canadian" SN-3 T-Pal
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Jeff Clark said:
I would suggest you try and find a way to test fire a few calibers to see what suits you. You also need to ask yourself if you are ever really going to hunt a moose. If what you really need is a deer rifle that could be used on an elk in a pinch I think you should look at a lighter caliber than 30-06 or 7mm magnum........ If you expect to do any target shooting smaller calibers are the way to go.
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Jeff,

My personal experience has dictated the .308. I do a small amount of target shooting (6-8 times per year). I run 168 gr Moly Black Hills BTHP through my M1A, and Federal Match BTHP through my Remington PSS with a Leupold Vari-XIII 4.5 x 14 x LR. The last group that I shot with the PSS, sandbagged, without sling, was at 200 yards, and measured 6" CTC, with 3 bullseyes, 20 rounds, all in the black on a 100 yard NRA target. This would put meat on the table.

One very important thing to consider is that bigger holes are easier to recognize with a spotting scope. I use a Kowa TSN-661 with a LER 25x eyepiece. This is very important in helping to figure out where the shots land, and also requires a "spotter"(shooting buddy).

This is also, however, perhaps a bit advanced expectation-wise for a deer hunter looking for a new rifle. The fact remains that at most gun shows, a nicely used Remington 700 BDL in either short action or long action(the only REALLY important choice) can be had for about $250.00-$400.00. The rifle can get the bejesus shot out of it, and rebuilt in the future into one of the hand-crafted creations the Aaron has shown above quite easily, or can stay as it exists, and will work for the shooter, equally well, depending upon application and expectations.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
i like the .270 a lot(and the .264 win mag, .300 savage, 7MM weatherby, 7MM rem mag,etc) but if i could only have one rifle it would be a .30-'06.
 
I've only got one deer rifle. It's an old Remington 700 BDL in 6mm Remington. My Dad gave it to me, and I will never sell or trade it. Dad used to hunt varmints with it, and had it mounted with an old single power Weaver 10X scope. Worked great, as long as you were 300 yards away, but worthless for much closer. Once Dad gave me the rifle(with a stern warning that I can NEVER get rid of it, or he will beat me up), I replaced the scope with a Nikon Monarch 4x12. I also had a Timken target trigger installed. This thing is a tackdriver!

One day a year or so ago, I took the rifle to a gun show to ask about it. No intention of selling it though. When the serial number was checked, it turns out this rifle was made about 1964 or so. I believe the person I talked to said it was made during the 2nd year they made them. It also has the 18" carbine length barrel and would be fairly collectable. I was also offered a pretty nice price(which I refused, by the way). :)

The 6mm Remington(or, 243, which is pretty much the same cartridge), would work great for anything deer sized and smaller. The 243 is easier to find ammo for, but the 6mm ammo can be found fairly easily at gun show and gun stores.
 
Mere Mortal said:
I am a deer hunter. The main thing I'm looking for is a good all around hunting rifle that I may do a little bench rest shooting with.
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I have a mate who's a professional deer stalker here in the Highlands of Scotland.

Over the past 10 to 15 years he has shot between 1,000 and 2,000 deer.

We have several species here, ranging from the small Roe Deer to the large Red Deer, a stag of which can weigh up to 300lbs.

My mate owns rifles in several calibres. If I remember correctly he uses .22-250 (for Roe only), .243, 6.5 x 55mm, .270 and .308

Despite the wilderness over which he shoots, he has never had to take a shot at over 250 yards, and rarely that far. (He uses a laser rangefinder).

He maintains that there is no observable difference in the performance of the above rounds, if the shooter does his bit.

Based on my limited rifle experience, and my mate's vast knowledge, I would recommend that you avoid the "UltraMegaLaserBlasters" and stick with either .308 or 6.5 x 55mm, both of which are established target rounds.

In the colonies (;) ) I'd be inclined to go for the .308. It has the advantages that cheap military ammo and brass are available; also bullets of a vast variety of weights and designs, load data, 'scopes optimised for the 168 grain class of bullet etc.

maximus otter
 
Along with the helped that everyone has given me I found another sight that I have been using for research, by Chuck Hawks that was loaded with a wealth of information.

Jeff - unfortunately I have no real way to test fire different calibers before choosing one that I would like to buy. Then again who says you can have only one rifle. For me a moose hunt would be possible but less than likely to happen. Mostly it will be deer and black bear but I am also only a short drive away from elk. I have a lot of hunts I want to plan but having the time and resources to go on them are two different things.

I was able to really check out the Savage but only had the time to look at the Savage and couldn’t/t compare it to anything else. The bolt seemed to wobble a little when I pulled it back, don't know if they all do it but I'll be looking at that when I try a few others. The one thing I really didn't like was the length of the action (I learned something about that too). I had to move my head away from the scope to reload which would result in me losing sight of the game I was looking at, something that didn't thrill me too much thinking that if I was bear hunting and took a 50 to 100 yard shot and had the bear turn and charge me I don't want to have to lose sight of him, reload, and try to reacquire a target knowing that he's bearing (forgive the pun) down on me. I don't know if putting a better bases on it and better optics that have better eye relief (another thing I've learned from you guys, spend at least the same amount if not more on the optics as you do on the rifle, buy quality once and never look back) will make a difference or not.

What I plan do to this Saturday is go and spend a long time looking at all the different manufacturers and calibers, especially since I have more than one I want to look at now.

Thanks for all the help,
Paul
 
6.5 x 55 Swede in Mauser is a great cartridge/action.
No kick, flat shooting, more readily available than ever.
.270 and .280, as well as, .06 have all done well in our deer camp all bolt action. We have had couple of animals (large whitetail) go a ways after very clean shots in the .243. Quite dead when found however. Went for different weight bullets after that.

In my opinon anything larger is overkill and will never make up for poor shot placement.
As far as needing to choose a caliber for shells that you can pick up last second at Walmart on the way out of town.... prepare.
Just my experience:)
 
Short Action versus Long Action? Short actions sell a lot of rifles because they are easier to cycle.

Bolt wobble? If it doesn,t bind when you cycle it doesn,t wobble too much.

Buy the rifle and caliber that suits your primary use. You don,t drive a motorhome to work in a daily commute because you might take the family on vacation in it. Don,t buy too much rifle either. Physical size has little to do with recoil tolerance and perceived recoil.

A short action .308 will work very well if you pick your shots and get some practice in at different ranges. I,m partial to Remington Sendero,s myself because they are a balanced rifle that is neither too heavy or nor too light. I also have a push feed Winchester 70 FWT in 7 Mauser that will work very nicely on deer.

Go find a coworker, bowling buddy, someone/anyone who has a centerfire rifle and try it! You really need some frame of reference to work with before you buy your rifle.
 
It is easy to collect too many must-have requirements for your gun and end up with a bad compromise. You have to prioritize some of these features or you will pay too much and get bad performance. Your concern for losing your sight picture with a long stroke bolt action rifle may be misplaced. I would expect to lose my sight picture with almost anything other than a semi-auto rifle. If you start trying to rapid fire a scoped bolt action rifle of almost any variety you are just asking to get a hit in the eyebrow by the scope. There are tricks for improving your cycle time, but they don't depend much on the bolt stroke.

If this was really a top notch critical issue everyone would be out hunting with autoloading rifles. They actually expected this after WWII and all the hunters who were trained on the M1 Garand rifle. In reality most hunters prefer the ruggedness and accuracy of a bolt action rifle, many serious hunters are happy with single shot bolt action rifles. If I was hunting bears and had a shot at under 100 yards I might dial-down my scope to 3x power rather than 9x. I would place my shot well and cycle my bolt immediately and go back to looking. If you really expected to work at short range a pump or autoloading shotgun might be a better bear hunting option.
 
Merl, set down with pin and pad and write a list, what game are you after, in what part of the country are you going to hunt, at what distance will most shots be made, maximum distance you will shoot at, will you be shooting in thick cover thru grass and small limbs etc, are you going to reload or shoot factory rounds. Then prioritise the list, most importent issues to you at the top. Keep in mind heavy slower moving large caliber rounds are little better for close round shooting in heavy cover, brush etc. Very fast small caliber rounds will deflect or starting deforming when striking very small interferances under these conditions. A point to ponder, as much as I love the 7 mag and its versitility I will never forget missing a 80 yard shot tru a small jack pine that was at about 40 yards out, I do not miss shots like that, I know that 140 grain speer doing about 3200 fps was deformed by striking those small branches which in turn deflected the round. A 180 grain 30-30 round probally would have stayed on course well enough to have made the kill. By the way if you reload, 7 mag combinations are endless you can tone it down as much as you like or if you have invested in a gun with a good action you can go well above factory loads. Try to determin what is best for you not what some else likes. Try the speer website for lots of valuable info and good luck.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/

Leon Pugh
 
maximus otter said:
I have a mate who's a professional deer stalker here in the Highlands of Scotland.

Over the past 10 to 15 years he has shot between 1,000 and 2,000 deer.

We have several species here, ranging from the small Roe Deer to the large Red Deer, a stag of which can weigh up to 300lbs.

My mate owns rifles in several calibres. If I remember correctly he uses .22-250 (for Roe only), .243, 6.5 x 55mm, .270 and .308

Despite the wilderness over which he shoots, he has never had to take a shot at over 250 yards, and rarely that far. (He uses a laser rangefinder).

He maintains that there is no observable difference in the performance of the above rounds, if the shooter does his bit.

Based on my limited rifle experience, and my mate's vast knowledge, I would recommend that you avoid the "UltraMegaLaserBlasters" and stick with either .308 or 6.5 x 55mm, both of which are established target rounds.

In the colonies (;) ) I'd be inclined to go for the .308. It has the advantages that cheap military ammo and brass are available; also bullets of a vast variety of weights and designs, load data, 'scopes optimised for the 168 grain class of bullet etc.

maximus otter
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well maybe but if the shooter doesnt do his "bit" thats were a .308 way outperforms a .22-250 (which imho isnt much more than a varmint calibre and isnt even legal to use in a lot of states). i personally have killed deer with a 22LR. does that make a 22LR a viable calibre for deer hunting? dont think so.

in the "colonies" shots over 200 yards arent unheard of.

do agree that a 308 is plenty enough for most game in the lower 48. easy to shoot, also.

of course the magnums do increase your range, my uncle does a lot of mule deer hunting in the davis mountains of west TX and shots of 300+ yards are not uncommon, lotsa folks use a 300 mag in that scenario, but a lot also choose a .30-'06. my uncle?? 8MM rem mag.
 
Nothing wrong with an '06, in any way, but if you lean toward the savage, I think the 308 makes more sense. It runs the same velocity up through 180 grains, with a shorter action length. Realistically, if a person saw a NEED for 200-220g bullets in an '06, he may be better off with something bigger. If you get a short action savage, with a few tools it can be rebarreled to other short action chamberings easily. i.e. 243,260,358, etc. By the way. 308 is adequate for moose, black bear. Only light for a brownie.
 
SIFU1A said:
well maybe but if the shooter doesnt do his "bit" thats were a .308 way outperforms a .22-250 (which imho isnt much more than a varmint calibre and isnt even legal to use in a lot of states). i personally have killed deer with a 22LR. does that make a 22LR a viable calibre for deer hunting? dont think so.
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maximus otter said:
the small Roe Deer .

...he uses .22-250 (for Roe only)
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The shooter has to "do his bit."

Ramping up the power to try to compensate for poor shot placement is not sportsmanlike.

maximus otter
 
I think the 7mm is a bit of overkill for deer hunting. I would look at a 30-06 this will give you a good round with lots of options for different bullet weights and hunitng opportunities. Possibly see if you can shoot a few of your friends guns to see what you like in caliber. Savage has a good line of guns that have been around for years, they are reliable and should not let you down if you take care of them. Good luck on you decision.
 
What part of the country are you in and what is the largest game you will be hunting with your new rifle? I would probably would go with the 30/06, but the 7mm Rem is just a good. I personally shoot a .300 Win mag but the recoil is higher. Just my opinion, but I doubt that if you were to fire the two, you would be able to notice much difference in recoil between the two. In an average 8 lb rifle(loaded with scope, sling etc) the 30/06 is probably 20 lbs of recoil and the 7mm mag is around 25 lbs of recoil. These figures will vary due to gun weight and bullet weight, but should be pretty accurate. I shoot a Remington 700 but the Savage 110 is a fine, though homely looking, gun. They are very accurate for the price and are a great value.
 
Paul, You can't go wrong with the tried and true '06.
Very versatile and fine for larger game.
Take it to the range and figure uot what load your gun likes best.
I grew up and learned to hunt in north central Pa. where The deer rifle is a Remington 760 in 30 06.
Walk into any deer camp around here the Sunday before buck season and thats what wiil be in the gun racks. Along with a few lever action 30 30s to add some variety.
 
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