What steel should my griptilian have?

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J.Mattson said:
Best guess. No. Not at the edge angles of the griptilian and not much more or less than the others on your list.
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Awesome thanks! So does toughness affect a knife's ability to cut through abrasive material? Or is toughness only how it absorbs impact.
 
Salata said:
Awesome thanks! So does toughness affect a knife's ability to cut through abrasive material? Or is toughness only how it absorbs impact.
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Toughness is an odd term for knife steels. It can mean many different things. The way most people think of it, is the steels resistance to chipping. In reality that term should be "strength" but that is less commonly used.

In short: Toughness is its resistance to chipping.
 
Salata said:
Awesome thanks! So does toughness affect a knife's ability to cut through abrasive material? Or is toughness only how it absorbs impact.
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Toughness, used correctly as it pertains to blades, can refer to impact resistance or ability to return to its original shape after flexion, etc. Many people use the term in reference to what we call edge stability, which is resistance to chips or rolls.

Any difference in toughness across these steels is a complete non-factor in cardboard cutting, and give factory secondary edge angles, edge stability between them should barely show a discernible difference.

Given BM heat treat, I would go with S30V for that application.
 
Ok thank you! So if I plan on getting a tougher steel, it would be able to cut more abrasive things without chipping/rolling?
 
I wanted my Grip to go a long time between sharpenings, so I went with the 551-1 and its CPM-20CV steel.
 
When I bought my first Benchmade a few years ago, it seemed like most of their knives were in 154CM. The model I wanted, though, only came in S30V. Since then, I've acquired a couple more Benchmades, in D2 and N680. I still don't have a BM in 154CM, and I'm curious to try one. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes out for a used Sequel.

That didn't help you much. All I have to offer is that I have no complaints with my North Fork in S30V, except that it's a little fat in the pocket. Holds an edge well and is easier to sharpen than D2.
 
Salata said:
Ok thank you! So if I plan on getting a tougher steel, it would be able to cut more abrasive things without chipping/rolling?
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Not really. To give you an example, let's say you're cutting through cardboard and absolutely smoke a giant staple. A "tougher" steel will be more likely to roll at the edge rather than chip. Or you're cutting a zip tie and hit a piece of metal, it will roll rather than chip. The level of abrasivity of the material has no effect on chipping or rolling the edge. That is where edge retention comes into play. The higher edge retention a steel has, the longer it can cut without the apex of the edge suffering deformities.

I would suggest looking up cut tests on each of these steels on YouTube to give you an idea of what is best for your needs. IMO, Benchmade does their S30V very well. I have a knife in their 20CV and it performs almost identical to their S30V.
 
Salata said:
Ok thank you! So if I plan on getting a tougher steel, it would be able to cut more abrasive things without chipping/rolling?
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No. A “tougher” steel would bend more before snapping, or be less likely to snap due to sharp impact. Any of these steels is more than tough enough for cutting cardboard and the like.

A steel with proper heat treat and find grain structure = more stable at the edge, and therefore more resistant to chips or rolls.

In all honesty, you’re unlikely to notice a difference in toughness or edge stability in the application you’ve described, unless you catch a sample with a burnt edge. In that case, the problem would be belt grinding issues, not steel composition.

The take away here should be, “don’t sweat it. S30V is great for this.”
 
tomhosang said:
Not really. To give you an example, let's say you're cutting through cardboard and absolutely smoke a giant staple. A "tougher" steel will be more likely to roll at the edge rather than chip. Or you're cutting a zip tie and hit a piece of metal, it will roll rather than chip. The level of abrasivity of the material has no effect on chipping or rolling the edge. That is where edge retention comes into play. The higher edge retention a steel has, the longer it can cut without the apex of the edge suffering deformities.

I would suggest looking up cut tests on each of these steels on YouTube to give you an idea of what is best for your needs. IMO, Benchmade does their S30V very well. I have a knife in their 20CV and it performs almost identical to their S30V.
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Thank you so much! You just answered a question I've had for a very long time! I always thought toughness would be the edge's ability to cut through tougher materials without chipping/rolling, good to know that it's not. Instead it only affects sudden impact such as whacking metal.

So I plan on going with 20cv, and I can cut through really general things like rope/cardboard/tape/plastic and not worry at all about it chipping or rolling? (as long as I don't hit metal)
 
Banter 247 said:
No. A “tougher” steel would bend more before snapping, or be less likely to snap due to sharp impact. Any of these steels is more than tough enough for cutting cardboard and the like.

A steel with proper heat treat and find grain structure = more stable at the edge, and therefore more resistant to chips or rolls.

In all honesty, you’re unlikely to notice a difference in toughness or edge stability in the application you’ve described, unless you catch a sample with a burnt edge. In that case, the problem would be belt grinding issues, not steel composition.

The take away here should be, “don’t sweat it. S30V is great for this.”
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Awesome! and 20cv would work perfectly fine too?
 
tomhosang said:
Not really. To give you an example, let's say you're cutting through cardboard and absolutely smoke a giant staple. A "tougher" steel will be more likely to roll at the edge rather than chip. Or you're cutting a zip tie and hit a piece of metal, it will roll rather than chip. The level of abrasivity of the material has no effect on chipping or rolling the edge. That is where edge retention comes into play. The higher edge retention a steel has, the longer it can cut without the apex of the edge suffering deformities.

I would suggest looking up cut tests on each of these steels on YouTube to give you an idea of what is best for your needs. IMO, Benchmade does their S30V very well. I have a knife in their 20CV and it performs almost identical to their S30V.
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I’d slightly amend the bold portion for clarity. Edge retention is probably best described as resisting dulling through ultra fine wear at the apex, as opposed to deforming through larger scope deformation like chips or rolls.
 
Salata said:
Awesome! and 20cv would work perfectly fine too?
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20CV is fine.

The thing is, Benchmade has been delivering S30V closer to its chemical potential than they have been with 20CV. Properly treated, 20CV should our perform S30V markedly. As they do it, it’s just OK.

If you really want peak performance from BM, they seem to be doing their best work with M4.
 
Banter 247 said:
20CV is fine.

The thing is, Benchmade has been delivering S30V closer to its chemical potential than they have been with 20CV. Properly treated, 20CV should our perform S30V markedly. As they do it, it’s just OK.

If you really want peak performance from BM, they seem to be doing their best work with M4.
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Thanks man! You're much more well articulated than I am :D
 
Yeah, since this is a folder, I'll be strictly using it for cutting, and not prying or chopping. Therefore toughness wouldn't matter, correct?
(Sorry If I seem paranoid, I don't want to buy a custom knife and then not like the steel)
 
Mo2 said:
154cm or s30v will be better for cutting cardboard iirc.

There have been tests showing its better in this task than the other options.

You would assume 20cv would be better, but it's not.

Tests done here and here

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC76o8bpHyEpBaysM9Pr83Og

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI_ZXbN06A7W937hKKnUfqQ

Just know you'll have to sharpen it a few times regardless to get past the burnt edges from the factory grinds.
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That is really surprising to me. Thanks for sharing. Edge retention is dependent on what one is cutting, and I think this shows that well.
 
jstn said:
That is really surprising to me. Thanks for sharing. Edge retention is dependent on what one is cutting, and I think this shows that well.
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Edge retention is dependent on many variables. not just what your cutting, but the geometry of the blade, the geometry of the angle of your cutting edge. and how thin behind the edge it is. on top of that the heat treatment of that steel and lastly the composition of that steel. the burnt edge from factory grinds would affect it but id say thats more metallurgy related to heat treatment.

but yea, rope tests are cool, but not really indicative of what you will see in real world scenario if you cut mostly cardboard. and neither would be ample if you cut mostly zip ties, etc. all we can do is hope testers provide data points and use those data points as knowledge to help understand a bit more.

right now most people go off of rope cut tests, but this isnt the only thing people cut and causes an issue when you are not seeing the same results with what you are actually cutting irl.
 
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