what the... rusty blade coatings? explain please?

[goodeyesniper]

there are two easy solutions here. first, make sure the edge and pivot are clean and dry to avoid any loss of utility. second, don't worry about what your tool looks like too much.

IMO, the main people who have "problems" with rust are people who rely on things to keep them from rusting. I carry simple carbon steels and use them harder and dirtier than people I know with stainless, in the same environment, and I have less, or no, rust problems.

I never even oil my knives. I simply am not reliant on special cleaners, coatings, oils, or chromium in my steel to keep them working. my opinel (which has less stain resistance than any steel I've used) had been used very dirty recently, hasn't been washed even in weeks, I just make sure to spend three seconds to wipe it down when I'm done with it. no new rust has formed from what I can tell.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

5 dollars... 30 wipes, each one can be used on multiple blades.. easy, fast, convenient, and food safe!

Since your label brought it up, Mineral oil is what you want to use on culinary knives and cutting boards and most anything else you eat off of.

Don't ever use olive oil or any other natural oil. It can turn rancid and make you poop like a goose.

 

[the kid]

Thanks for this informational thread, I won't be buying any stainless knives with coating after reading this.
I thought the coating was there to PREVENT rust not attract rust. Now I find out it is there to... make the blade less shiny?
Why would anyone want a less shiny blade but have it more prone to rust, that doesn't make any sense. (except maybe if you're a ninja)

I'm going to assume the coating on my Condor fixed blades in 1075 steel actually does the job coating is supposed to do.

 

[jimmyd1982]

there are two easy solutions here. first, make sure the edge and pivot are clean and dry to avoid any loss of utility. second, don't worry about what your tool looks like too much.

IMO, the main people who have "problems" with rust are people who rely on things to keep them from rusting. I carry simple carbon steels and use them harder and dirtier than people I know with stainless, in the same environment, and I have less, or no, rust problems.

I never even oil my knives. I simply am not reliant on special cleaners, coatings, oils, or chromium in my steel to keep them working. my opinel (which has less stain resistance than any steel I've used) had been used very dirty recently, hasn't been washed even in weeks, I just make sure to spend three seconds to wipe it down when I'm done with it. no new rust has formed from what I can tell.

So you're saying rust is what? A frame of mind? It will only develop if you worry about it?

I sure wish I knew that when I lived on the Florida coast, it would have solved a lot of problems for me.

 

[jimmyd1982]

5 dollars... 30 wipes, each one can be used on multiple blades.. easy, fast, convenient, and food safe!

Be better off buying a bottle and using a rag. I think a bottle cost me around 3 bucks and it has lasted me about 2 years so far.

 

[worldwood]

Maybe you would. Im better off using them... its a lot easier to take these out in the woods for a week long trip than taking a bottle and a rag! This is lighter, quicker, smaller, easier, more convenient and less wasteful. But what ever works for you!


I use Eezox too, for blades that will never be used for food prep, stuff works excellent!!

 

[jimmyd1982]

Not sure how it's less wasteful but they would be great for a trip. Might have to pick some up for camping trips. :thumbup:

 

[worldwood]

So you're saying rust is what? A frame of mind? It will only develop if you worry about it?

I sure wish I knew that when I lived on the Florida coast, it would have solved a lot of problems for me.

How did I miss this? LMAO I got a good chuckle from this

Not sure how it's less wasteful but they would be great for a trip. Might have to pick some up for camping trips. :thumbup:

Less wasteful on the oil, for me anyway..I use to use mineral oil out the bottle and just pour it on the rag as well, still do when im in the man cave and too lazy to go get the wipes, but i was never very careful about how much to use and would overdo it, this way its already ready to go. If you are careful with the oil and rag, the wipes i posted would be more wasteful technically because 30 wipes in the trash is more wasteful LMAO

They are good on trips, thats why i originally got them too, its very humid here and even avoiding water completely you can have oxidation happen just over night.

 

[Cereal_killer]

wow diamonds and charcoal must be terrible rust magnets then if the carbon, not the iron in the steel is what causes rust

The carbon in diamond and other stuff is pure carbon in a mono-crystalline structure, the carbon in steel is a single atom in a molecule and is very receptive to bind with O2 to forum rust (its the O2 in water that causes rust, not the water [or the hydrogen])
What's been said is true, it is the carbon in the steel that rusts, that's why spyderco's H1 and N680 is infact rust proof, because those steels contain zero carbon, as mentioned other than the few true rust proof steels all carbon containing "stainless" will eventually rust.

 

[simioh]

Not sure what Diamond and charcoal have to do with oxidation? Yes the carbon and there is carbon in iron are what is rusting.

Diamonds and coal are made of carbon, and since you are saying carbon causes rust, he's wondering how come diamonds and coal don't rust.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

...which has constantly been dry...

... knives that are never wet...

Where you live, Harrisburg, NC, you have relatively high humidity. So your knives are constantly exposed to a certain amount of humidity. And maybe even some salt (which exacerbates oxidation) under some weather conditions, although you are not terribly close to the coast.

When I lived in S. Louisiana, rust was a continuing issue. Humidity. Here, in the mountains of Northern New Mexico, we have less than 10% humidity on average, no rust issues. I had to use oil on both my guns and my knives regularly when in S. La. because of that exposure. Up here - not so much.

So, your quotes above are not really true. They might not be getting "wet", but they are exposed to humidity which has the same effect.

 

[Cap’n Smudge]

I have seen something similar to the first picture before. I initially thought it was rust, but it wiped right off. It appeared again, but again wiped right off. Then I realized it was coming from the pivot. It was from the brass washers and oil. Can't help you with the other two. The coated blade is puzzling. Perhaps the citric acid oxidized some ingredient in the coating. So oxidation yes, just not ferrous oxidation. The tool is rusted. If it was not physically wet then I suspect high humidity, as others have posted.

 

[goodeyesniper]

So you're saying rust is what? A frame of mind? It will only develop if you worry about it?

I sure wish I knew that when I lived on the Florida coast, it would have solved a lot of problems for me.

tbh, I kind of am saying that. but it really all boils down to modifying how you treat your knife in subtle ways. "early me" had problem with non stainless rusting, yet early me spent ten times more energy on cleaning, oiling, and caring for these same knives. the problem is that I was doing the basic things that forum guys talk about, which rarely applies to people actually using their knives. yes, if I lived in Florida my routine would need to be more in depth, but I'm lucky enough to live in California instead

what it boils down to is that I had more rust problems when I kept my blades constantly oiled than I do now, and I never oil my blades now. because my methods and understanding on why rust forms were flawed or incomplete. I spend three seconds wiping down immediately, instead of thirty second washing off when I get a chance.

but obviously living in a high humidity area you would need that barrier to keep the moisture in the air from causing corrosion.

 

[the kid]

tbh, I kind of am saying that. but it really all boils down to modifying how you treat your knife in subtle ways. "early me" had problem with non stainless rusting, yet early me spent ten times more energy on cleaning, oiling, and caring for these same knives. the problem is that I was doing the basic things that forum guys talk about, which rarely applies to people actually using their knives. yes, if I lived in Florida my routine would need to be more in depth, but I'm lucky enough to live in California instead

what it boils down to is that I had more rust problems when I kept my blades constantly oiled than I do now, and I never oil my blades now. because my methods and understanding on why rust forms were flawed or incomplete. I spend three seconds wiping down immediately, instead of thirty second washing off when I get a chance.

but obviously living in a high humidity area you would need that barrier to keep the moisture in the air from causing corrosion.

So you carry some cloth with you at all times and use it every time you use your knife.
Out of curiosity; why not get a stainless knife instead?

 

[chiral.grolim]

The carbon in diamond and other stuff is pure carbon in a mono-crystalline structure, the carbon in steel is a single atom in a molecule and is very receptive to bind with O2 to forum rust (its the O2 in water that causes rust, not the water [or the hydrogen])
What's been said is true, it is the carbon in the steel that rusts, that's why spyderco's H1 and N680 is infact rust proof, because those steels contain zero carbon, as mentioned other than the few true rust proof steels all carbon containing "stainless" will eventually rust.

Is this a joke? Because it is certainly nonsense...



TO the OP, I see a lot of gunk in the first image that is orange like rust and seems to be washing out from the pivot area or the thumbstud of the CRKT - perhaps you have some non-stainless metals there?

In the second image, rust. Is it stainless steel or just polished tool steel? Probably the latter. If it becomes a problem, definitely treat it as indicated by others above.

In the third image, I see some orange within the serrations where bare metal meets coating - is that what you are talking about? The scratch pattern in the bare serrations could easily collect moisture form the air, the interface where the coating begins is a good condensation point so there could be such minor oxidation occurring there, or it could just be collected material from elsewhere that is sticking at the interface. IF corrosion is occurring there, a simple polish of the area (reduce the scratch pattern) may suffice to prevent recurrence. There is sufficient free-chromium in the matrix of these steels to keep corrosion to a minimum, but as already stated it does not eliminate it.

No where do I see the coating causing or enhancing corrosion, no "rusty blade coatings".

 

[jimmyd1982]

So you carry some cloth with you at all times and use it every time you use your knife.
Out of curiosity; why not get a stainless knife instead?

I actually do carry a handkerchief with me at all times. One of it's uses is wiping down my blade after I use it.

I'm guessing what goodeyesniper is talking about is letting a patina form to keep a blade from rusting so easily, that or using magic mental powers to prevent rust

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

What's nonsense? That it's the carbon in the steel that induces rust? Iron will corrode, but relatively slowly compared to steel, and as the Iron Pillar of Delhi demonstrates, properly made an iron structure can last 1600 years without protection (other than the iron hydrogen phosphate hydrate that was produced as a result of its novel casting process).

Spyderco's H1 steel (it shouldn't really be called steel since it contains no carbon) doesn't rust. That's the point most people make when using it. It doesn't harden conventionally either, so is best when used in a serrated blade where its work hardening feature comes in.

If you're noticing rust particles on the coating you might find it's actually steel dust from sharpening.

 

[the kid]

I actually do carry a handkerchief with me at all times. One of it's uses is wiping down my blade after I use it.

I'm guessing what goodeyesniper is talking about is letting a patina form to keep a blade from rusting so easily, that or using magic mental powers to prevent rust

He clearly states all he does is wiping the blade each time after use in his last post. Just like you. Perhaps the problems occurs when you have multiple knives which you don't use daily.

When I don't use a knife for a long period I apply a little bit of oil to all the metal parts. Also I have a lot of Victorinox which do not rust.
I even have some 20 year old second hand ones which are clearly treated badly and not one speck of rust.
Same with my Herder kitchen knives I have no issues with storing them wet right out of the dishwasher. They do not rust.
I live in a high humidity country.

My Boker in Aus8 on the other hand did have very small rust specks. I'm not sure if it has a coating, could also be a very smooth satin finish.

 

[chiral.grolim]

What's nonsense? That it's the carbon in the steel that induces rust? Iron will corrode, but relatively slowly compared to steel, and as the Iron Pillar of Delhi demonstrates, properly made an iron structure can last 1600 years without protection (other than the iron hydrogen phosphate hydrate that was produced as a result of its novel casting process).

Spyderco's H1 steel (it shouldn't really be called steel since it contains no carbon) doesn't rust. That's the point most people make when using it. It doesn't harden conventionally either, so is best when used in a serrated blade where its work hardening feature comes in.

If you're noticing rust particles on the coating you might find it's actually steel dust from sharpening.

Yes, the "carbon rusts" is nonsense, and moreso the details about the molecular structure. Rust is iron-oxide, formed by a chemical reaction which carbon plays no part in. Sorry.
H1 steel doesn't corrode NOT because of the lack of carbon but because of the presence or oxidation-preventing components, namely free chromium & nickel, which prevent oxidation of the iron. In steels with a higher carbon content but similar chromium & nickel levels, the latter are largely taken up in carbides and cannot contribute to the protective passivation layer at the surface. Please investigate to "passivation" in relation to your Pillar of Dehli.

 

[worldwood]

Chiral, I love reading your posts, and your reviews!!!

I always feel a little smarter... and a little dumber....all at once