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What the ?!?!?!?
- Thread starter DrSpine
- Start date
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- Nov 2, 2001
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- 667
geeeze sounds like somebody might be jealous to me.
theres no way to get ahead like knocking other people down
Maybe its just a matter of personal value, he may not value striders, but then again i dont find much value in his blades either
not to say that his knives are "quick and dirty" or "sad", just that those arent the kind of knives im interested in. I would never put down someones hard work, not like he did.:barf:
theres no way to get ahead like knocking other people down
Maybe its just a matter of personal value, he may not value striders, but then again i dont find much value in his blades either
not to say that his knives are "quick and dirty" or "sad", just that those arent the kind of knives im interested in. I would never put down someones hard work, not like he did.:barf:
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2000
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- 143
Who cares.... if in fact he is even talking about Strider Knives. Anyone that owns a Strider knows that they're the real deal.
killerkain
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- Mar 7, 2000
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- 1,048
I think it's pretty obvious who he's talking about. I say tough beans. RW is a very talented knife maker, but I can't get over how cheap he sells his stuff for. A huge amount of work goes into his knives and sheaths. He sells these things for a song. I'm sure he just thinks he's just being fair and honest. I think he undervalues his stuff. Anyway, Striders aren't cheap, but they are well made. Obviously they're doing something right- either that or we're all just a bunch of idiots. And frankly RW's remarks are out of line. Jealousy? Maybe. I just think he needs to mark up his stuff. He'd sell probably almost as many knives and he would be making enough dough that he wouldn't have to feel wronged by a bunch of "machinests".
I don't mean to badmouth Mr. Clark, as he seems to be a good guy and he's a talented maker. He just needs to think more about what he says about his peers in the community. And start charging competitive rates.
I don't mean to badmouth Mr. Clark, as he seems to be a good guy and he's a talented maker. He just needs to think more about what he says about his peers in the community. And start charging competitive rates.
Troy Webber
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- Mar 31, 2001
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There does seem to be a trend of quick and dirty production. This is truely sad. There is a VERY popular company that produces production handmades. They grind, heat treat, bead blast, and paracord wrap the handles. This company is praised for producing "some of the best knives out there". I just don't get it. But they seem to get it, the big bucks that is.
Seems that many many makers are taking advantage of the "tactical knife" hype to produce as many blades as they can as quickly as they can. So are they knifemakers or just machinests?
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What was R.W really saying,and was it worth disrupting Ed Fowlers thread over it?
I'm not saying he should have said what he said,but if you read the quote line by line,I don't see how it can be taken as a slam against Strider.If it was directed towards them in the first place.
1.-I'm sure from a guy who makes knives like R.W,the trend toward quick and dirty production(ie. blast finishes and wrapped handles)is sad.I see his lament in the same way as a guy saying they don't make cars like they used to.etc.
2.- he goes on to describe a company's production process:Now is he talking about Strider Knives?I'm sure he is well aware that Strider doesn't heat treat their knives.Is he describing Strider?Who Knows?Who cares?Is the process different than he describes?Whats wrong with cordwrap?
3.-he goes on to give them their props as a company with a great reputation who that is selling alot of knives.Even though he admits to not understanding the allure of Strider knives or whoever he is describing.The important thing to realize here is:even though he doesn't "get it", he is recognizing the company's achievements.
4.-the last observation,I belive is pretty much rooted in fact.There are many many makers jumping on the Tactical bandwagon.Why?To sell lots of knives because it is a popular style right now.Pick up TK magazine and see for yourself.All kinds of different guys making all kinds of tactical knives.If I were going to start up a knife shop,that is the direction I would go.But Strider didn't pop up overnight after the tactical craze to make a quick dollar.They have been around making stuff for a long time.I think this part of R.W.'s statement was mainly generalization directed at an undeniable trend.
5.- So are they knifemakers or are just machinests?My best guess would be that they are knifemakers.They are making knives,after all.Again,I look at his question as more of a philosophical rambling.
I have seen the same thing in archery with traditionalists vs. modern archers.Any industry that is changing causes people to think about it.
Now the important question:Why did I just waste a half hour rambling on about this.I can honestly say i don't know.I just saw the reaction to R.W.'s comments and really read what he said,and could not for the life of me see what caused the negative reaction.I saw R.W.'s comments as him being genuinely puzzled about this segment of the knife industry.He didn't call the knives "junk".He didn't say no one should buy them,or they are stupid if they do.He gave them props on their good reputation.He admitted to being the one who didn't "get it".I did not see anything disparaging in his comments.I guess I just didn't see it the way you guys did.
troy
Seems that many many makers are taking advantage of the "tactical knife" hype to produce as many blades as they can as quickly as they can. So are they knifemakers or just machinests?
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What was R.W really saying,and was it worth disrupting Ed Fowlers thread over it?
I'm not saying he should have said what he said,but if you read the quote line by line,I don't see how it can be taken as a slam against Strider.If it was directed towards them in the first place.
1.-I'm sure from a guy who makes knives like R.W,the trend toward quick and dirty production(ie. blast finishes and wrapped handles)is sad.I see his lament in the same way as a guy saying they don't make cars like they used to.etc.
2.- he goes on to describe a company's production process:Now is he talking about Strider Knives?I'm sure he is well aware that Strider doesn't heat treat their knives.Is he describing Strider?Who Knows?Who cares?Is the process different than he describes?Whats wrong with cordwrap?
3.-he goes on to give them their props as a company with a great reputation who that is selling alot of knives.Even though he admits to not understanding the allure of Strider knives or whoever he is describing.The important thing to realize here is:even though he doesn't "get it", he is recognizing the company's achievements.
4.-the last observation,I belive is pretty much rooted in fact.There are many many makers jumping on the Tactical bandwagon.Why?To sell lots of knives because it is a popular style right now.Pick up TK magazine and see for yourself.All kinds of different guys making all kinds of tactical knives.If I were going to start up a knife shop,that is the direction I would go.But Strider didn't pop up overnight after the tactical craze to make a quick dollar.They have been around making stuff for a long time.I think this part of R.W.'s statement was mainly generalization directed at an undeniable trend.
5.- So are they knifemakers or are just machinests?My best guess would be that they are knifemakers.They are making knives,after all.Again,I look at his question as more of a philosophical rambling.
I have seen the same thing in archery with traditionalists vs. modern archers.Any industry that is changing causes people to think about it.
Now the important question:Why did I just waste a half hour rambling on about this.I can honestly say i don't know.I just saw the reaction to R.W.'s comments and really read what he said,and could not for the life of me see what caused the negative reaction.I saw R.W.'s comments as him being genuinely puzzled about this segment of the knife industry.He didn't call the knives "junk".He didn't say no one should buy them,or they are stupid if they do.He gave them props on their good reputation.He admitted to being the one who didn't "get it".I did not see anything disparaging in his comments.I guess I just didn't see it the way you guys did.
troy
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
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- 3,831
Troy:
After reading your thoughts and re-reading RW's post, I must thank you. It is interesting how, with what critical writers call "giving charity", RW's comments take on a ompletely different meaning than the standard "He's bashing Striders" idea that seems to jump out at us.
I hope that RW comes back and explains what he said, as that would clear up much of the confusion. Thanks Troy.
After reading your thoughts and re-reading RW's post, I must thank you. It is interesting how, with what critical writers call "giving charity", RW's comments take on a ompletely different meaning than the standard "He's bashing Striders" idea that seems to jump out at us.
I hope that RW comes back and explains what he said, as that would clear up much of the confusion. Thanks Troy.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2001
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- 18,959
I agree with RW's 'musing's', and I often find myself asking the same questions...
The bottom line here is, of all the 'start up' companies in any industry, some will 'make it', while others will not...
While many companies never get off the ground, even fewer make the 'cut', and the number with 'staying power' are even less.
Speaking only of our 'business', there are many fads over time, and the wise knife maker should set aside a high percentage of earnings, because when the fad ends, it's over.
The downside is, much like a professional sports star, many fad knife makers don't see past next week...
When it's hot, save...because when it's not, you can't.
Personally, I think 'tactical' knives like Emerson's and Strider's are a fad, but that's just me, and only time will tell.
As far as quality in the form of a finished product goes, if it sells, who gives a phuck? Most people wouldn't recognize quality if it struck them upside the head...lol
So, grind it out, wrap it in paracord, paint it 'funky' colors, and sell it...but save that percentage, because someday some little snot nosed 'no-nothing' forumite is going to cry out that the emperor is butt naked...
p.s. Cray, at work today, I put up a pair of elbow length rubber gloves with a note on them, your new sig line..."Come what may"
I got a few laughs...weird eh?
The bottom line here is, of all the 'start up' companies in any industry, some will 'make it', while others will not...
While many companies never get off the ground, even fewer make the 'cut', and the number with 'staying power' are even less.
Speaking only of our 'business', there are many fads over time, and the wise knife maker should set aside a high percentage of earnings, because when the fad ends, it's over.
The downside is, much like a professional sports star, many fad knife makers don't see past next week...
When it's hot, save...because when it's not, you can't.
Personally, I think 'tactical' knives like Emerson's and Strider's are a fad, but that's just me, and only time will tell.
As far as quality in the form of a finished product goes, if it sells, who gives a phuck? Most people wouldn't recognize quality if it struck them upside the head...lol
So, grind it out, wrap it in paracord, paint it 'funky' colors, and sell it...but save that percentage, because someday some little snot nosed 'no-nothing' forumite is going to cry out that the emperor is butt naked...
p.s. Cray, at work today, I put up a pair of elbow length rubber gloves with a note on them, your new sig line..."Come what may"
I got a few laughs...weird eh?
Troy Webber
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- 121
Crayola:
I wouldn't hold your breath for R.W. to come in here to explain himself.Nor do I think he owes anyone an explanation.
A lot of Strider owners take pride in the idea of their knives as tools.I think they are tools.Take a look at the pictures of Shelby's AR and try to tell me it isn't a tool.
R.W. called the process as he saw it-Toolmaking.(by his reference to machinests)
By his description ,he described the product as tools.(at least that's how I saw it)
What's so wrong about that.Strider calls its product tools in its motto.Are they tools or not?
troy
How can one make judgments about a knife unless you've actually used that knife? I look at a knife as a tool, sure I have quite a few, but each one of them is a user. I'll bet that there have been more Randalls that have been broken in the field than Striders. I've only used one of the 2 that I've mentioned, but you can be sure that if my ass was on the line, I would want a Strider.
Well, he did write "quick and dirty production." Then wrote that it is "truely sad." Are these comments considered praise? Then he refers to a so-called "popular company." Why doesn't he just state the company? How many other production handmade companies paracord wrap the handles? Is he referring to Ek knives? Maybe the CRKT Stiff Kiss with paracord wrap? I'd like to know if he was referring to Strider and if so, what exactly is so "sad" about it?
Troy Webber
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Are you trying to deny that Strider is quick and dirty production?I purchased a knife last weekend that had a hand rubbed satin finish to 800 grit I believe.Multiple sanding steps;pinned brass bolsters;hand rubbed kingwood handle.Multiple oiling on the handle and sanding and buffing to bring out the shine.Hand stiched and fitted leather sheath.Compare that to Strider recieving their heat treated blade and blasting the tiger stripes through the oxide layer and cordwrapping the handle.I don't think calling it quick and dirty is such a stretch.What would you call it?An industrial finish?Slow and clean production?A tool finish?It probably is sad from a traditional knifemaker's perspective to see such a large part of the market buying these type of knives.I wouldn't take it so personally,the knives are great and he never put that into question.But to deny that the production is what it is,to me, seems silly.
troy
troy
There is nothing quick and dirty about the construction of a Stider knife. And there's nothing sad about Strider knives. The blades are ground and radiused by hand. The cord wrap is done by hand. The bead blast is applied by hand. The knives are sharpened by hand. The heat treat is done by Bos, one of the best in the business and used by many custom makers. There's nothing quick about the production. It took me 8 months to get my AR folder. The knives are not dirty. Mine arrived very clean.
Troy Webber
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The main beef I think most have had with Mr. Clark's comment was the insinuation that the Strider Blade was an inferior product and over priced. The comment was more than a slam on a tool like finish. As the Man says Hard Core Tools, Amen. I'm willing to bet my life on mine if it comes down to it. So I guess some strider owners are quick to defend what (in my opinion) I consider to be one of the most durable field tools I haven't broken as of yet.
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- Jan 30, 2001
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Remember that Strider Knives if they are truly the ones in question, started out making knives for a specific purpose. The knives were to be used in harsh conditions in a manner which required that the user have the utmost trust in the tool's ability to withstand abuse. The commercial/civilian market latched on to Striders. Strider's mission statement remained the same with priorities lying with enlisted men. Why would they waste time on production of features that would compromise their original purpose? On certain knives I like a really nice polish, too, but I doubt somebody who went through the trouble of putting on a ghillie suit would want an 800 grit polished blade 
. As to their popularity waning ... I think the huge abundance of positive testimony from military personnel who've used Strider knives will be enough of a selling point for other enlisted men and women. And the continued use by more and more people in the military will probably keep it popular in the civilian sector as well.
. As to their popularity waning ... I think the huge abundance of positive testimony from military personnel who've used Strider knives will be enough of a selling point for other enlisted men and women. And the continued use by more and more people in the military will probably keep it popular in the civilian sector as well.- Joined
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To say Striders and Emerson's are just a fad is really not fair, yes I know you said it was your opinion but, think about it, if it is not broken you don't fix it. Knives in the category you talk about (Tactical) are in constant evolution. We have seen many examples over the years of what works and what does not. This was and is discovered mostly by men who push their tools to the limit. Striders are simply at the top of the(Tactical) food chain. I cannot see how this can be debated?? Are all the Soldiers, Police Officers, Tac-Teams and others that have USED and continue to USE these knives wrong?? HELL NO!!
Troy Webber I mean no disrespect but,
R.W. Clark knew who he was talking about. He saw that he had stepped on his crank, got called on it, and bailed out.
Kampfjaeger: please email me as I cannot find any contact info.
Thanks. MattMnault@aol.com
Matt Nault
Troy Webber I mean no disrespect but,
R.W. Clark knew who he was talking about. He saw that he had stepped on his crank, got called on it, and bailed out.
Kampfjaeger: please email me as I cannot find any contact info.
Thanks. MattMnault@aol.com
Matt Nault
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- 29,205
Just thought that I would take this opportunity to come here and commend all those who stood up for Strider knives being the fine product that they are. I do however have to agree with Troy on this matter. I do not think that what Ron posted was all that bad. The fact that he did not want to point out what company he was speaking about only makes sense to me. If he did that, then he would be in line to get a going over from the followers of that brand. No use pissing one group off to placate another.
Hopefully Ron will reconsider his decision to leave. I am not sure if he meant Bladeforums as a whole or just the Custom Knife forum. I tend to think he meant the former. It did not seem to be all that bad a flaming he got, just a few guys who thought an explanation was in order. No one came out with both guns a blazin and called him a bunch of names. It could have been much worse, so to those who took part, thanks for keeping a cool head.
By the way Troy, it is interesting that you called it Ed Fowlers thread. I guess that even though I started it, I was hoping that Ed would jump in, and he did. That was about the only way it was going to become a productive thread.
Hopefully Ron will reconsider his decision to leave. I am not sure if he meant Bladeforums as a whole or just the Custom Knife forum. I tend to think he meant the former. It did not seem to be all that bad a flaming he got, just a few guys who thought an explanation was in order. No one came out with both guns a blazin and called him a bunch of names. It could have been much worse, so to those who took part, thanks for keeping a cool head.
By the way Troy, it is interesting that you called it Ed Fowlers thread. I guess that even though I started it, I was hoping that Ed would jump in, and he did. That was about the only way it was going to become a productive thread.
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Personally, I thought that he was referring to SK. Ron was pretty explicit in his description. However, the point I was trying to make to him without being insulting, was that he shouldn't be badmouthing other makers in that manner.
If all he had said was that he thought some makers were more machinists than knife makers; or that some were doing crappy work and hopping on the tactical knife bandwagon, I would have agreed completely. However he chose to be explicitly descriptive of the company he disapproved of and came just short of actually disclosingtheir name. And he was surprised that he got flamed?
Come on... We aren't "Official Defenders of the Faith" here. SK doesn't even need us to do that. I just thought that his manner and unrepentant attitude about his conduct sucked.
Vermonster: I keep it to the open forum.
If all he had said was that he thought some makers were more machinists than knife makers; or that some were doing crappy work and hopping on the tactical knife bandwagon, I would have agreed completely. However he chose to be explicitly descriptive of the company he disapproved of and came just short of actually disclosingtheir name. And he was surprised that he got flamed?
Come on... We aren't "Official Defenders of the Faith" here. SK doesn't even need us to do that. I just thought that his manner and unrepentant attitude about his conduct sucked.
Vermonster: I keep it to the open forum.
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- Jun 17, 2000
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Kampfjaeger,
It's really not a public matter. But if thats the way you want to be, thats fine too. I am sure you have your reasons.
It's really not a public matter. But if thats the way you want to be, thats fine too. I am sure you have your reasons.
Troy Webber
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I guess it was your thread.oops.
I guess I just don't see it the way you guys do.Repentant- to whom exactly does he need to repent.The guy voiced his opinion.Also-i still don't see where he implied that the knives were inferior in quality.
As far as a maker bashing another maker.Right on this very forum less than a month ago,I saw a regular Strider forum poster referred to another respected maker's knives as junk and garbage.I did not see half of the outrage expressed when that happened.R.W. is a knife buyer and user too ,and is entitled to his opinion.I guess this thread just reminded me of JonLL.Where'd he go anyway?I'm sure he would have had alot to say on this whole subject.
troy
I guess I just don't see it the way you guys do.Repentant- to whom exactly does he need to repent.The guy voiced his opinion.Also-i still don't see where he implied that the knives were inferior in quality.
As far as a maker bashing another maker.Right on this very forum less than a month ago,I saw a regular Strider forum poster referred to another respected maker's knives as junk and garbage.I did not see half of the outrage expressed when that happened.R.W. is a knife buyer and user too ,and is entitled to his opinion.I guess this thread just reminded me of JonLL.Where'd he go anyway?I'm sure he would have had alot to say on this whole subject.
troy