What to carry it all in? Packs, Vests, LBE, other???

I have the South African vest that is mentioned above. I planned on using it for hunting, but it seems to be a bit too tactical for me. Many pockets designed for rifle magazines. I also have an LBE setup with suspenders, a canteen and "cup" and have added a couple of packs to it, also South African, that I like better. The added packs are similar to these.

Here is a link to a South African pack for sale on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=436770060 I have also seen another design from time to time on Ebay that is similar to this one but has suspenders.

Here is another favorite of mine http://thearmynavy.com/301430-retail.html . There are many tie down straps, but I replaced the main closures with the quick release type buckles. It sells for $10.

Just found the belt pack mentioned above on ebay selling for >$40 for $20 here http://thearmynavy.com/301442-armynavy.html


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Kevin Miller
My Personal Interests Page
kevinandtrish@sympatico.ca
Look to the Lord and His strength, seek His face always.

[This message has been edited by KevinMillerCan (edited 09-14-2000).]
 
Bagheera- I would be very interested to see what that bag looks like, how much is it in US$?

That South African Vest looks cool, though, the lack of a belt in the front would limit it's utlility for me.

I carry the daily supplies in the pockets of my cargo pants. For the next level, I have a BBC pouch, 7x5.5x1.5, it duplicates all of the pocket stuff, plus some. Beyond that, I have a Jandd rucksack, a British clone of the CFP-90, modified for SAS LRP mission, and LBE.

One of the things I like about the LBE, is that all the gear is accessible, without taking if off, something that most packs don't have. Though the 'mil' appearance of the LBE is a real downside. The facet of the LBE distriuting the weight all around me is nice, guards against that aft-heaviness that packs invariably feature.

I am gong to check out the LBV and the regular vest for the social occasions.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Review of the World Survival Institute, Chris Janowsky survival knife, the Ranger.

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"Many are blinded by name and reputation, few see the truth" Lao Tzu
 
Hi Marion,

I finally made some pictures of the "daypack" the over the shoulder Fjallraven model Cashew.
The normal price is about $37 and I got mine as a sale item because it had some spots (dirt) on it for about $20 (I was lucky).

Still I'm writing a rather long letter to Fjallraven as I think they could have inproved considerably on the Cashew pack with just some "Extra" care/thinking.
Like covered zippers so that rain doesn't immediately hits the zippers and also make it so it adjusts to just a little bigger boned
biggrin.gif
people like I am (waist size 42").
And some other "thoughts".

Take a look at my "survival items" folder on my photopoint pages way down I have about 8 shots of the pack even with me in it.
go see

<a href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=130364&a=1351641">
See my photos of Survival Items at PhotoPoint</a>

and scroll way down.

Cheers from Holland,

Bagheera

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[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 09-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 09-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 09-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 09-20-2000).]
 
The Becker Patrol Pack is the cat's ass when it comes to a nice ruck for the field... I'm hearing nice things about the new MOLLE system as well.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Hey Kevin...

About those S.African packs...

I sold about 3 dozen of them last year.. LOL

I can pick those up by the crate,, or at least could last time I was at the Warehouse..

My son uses one for school.. LOL

Pretty decent pack,,although they could use some padding in the shoulders...Works great for my son,,he packs a pile of $hit into his, and the best thing about it,, if he wrecks it,, I'll just grab him another...
smile.gif


Next time I go to the warehouse I'll grab a bunch of them,, I'll let you know..

ttyle Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
I've used both internal & external frame packs for the desert. The external is cooler in hot weather, the internal is better suited to climbing rough terrain.
 
I usually like the blue canvas knapsack I picked up at a Play it again sports 6 years ago for 10 bucks. I've packed a weekend worth of warm weather gear in it, and it's my 'grab' bag when I'm on a canoeing trip. It carries groceries home when I go riding, and is 100% camelback compatible (At least my camelback fits inside it nicely
smile.gif
). I've pondered replacing it, and may need to soon, because the repairs on the repairs in a place or two are beginning to need repairing, but I just can't bring myself to replace it with something costing 10 times or more.

I do like the simplicity of it though, there is a main bag with a drawstring top, and a pocket top. The outside has a few strap on points. No extra places to lose equipment, or more seams to repair with age. That's the style I prefer.


Stryver
 
I usually layer my survival gear, depending upon what we're doing and where we are doing it. I like survival vests and use a Blackhawk omega EOD tac-vest. I can put a 100oz camelbak with an in-line water filter in the back of the vest, have a butt pack on it with stay warm and dry gear plus a mre, a fishing kit and a ton of 550 cord in it. The pockets on the front and belt pouches hold compass, signaling, first aid and firestarting gear. Snivel meds also go in the vest. The vest has map compartments on the inside of the chest panels. I'll carry additional fire, food and such on me. Boots have a bunch of extra 550 cord on 'em and of course the backup wrist compass on the watch band. Oh yeah, the cell phone in my pocket so I can call for a ride and avoid the whole survival situation.

Have fun and check out my wife's store. She just started, so sign her guest book and make her feel happy
smile.gif
It's good gear, my team buys all their kit from her. www.goget'emgear.50megs.com


[This message has been edited by Javahed (edited 09-30-2000).]
 
Wow, do you really want to strap on something that tactical? Yes, BlackHawk tactical gear has a definite place, but it's not for bumming around the woods, or at least if you don't want people telling their kids to stay away from that scary looking guy.

As far as vests/fanny packs go, they Scream concealed weapon. I realize that the original question was about a container for survival gear, but and actual survival has little to do with vertical magazine pockets.

Backpacks aimed at the climbing market have come a long was from simple rucksacs to designs that really stick to your back no matter what movements you may be making and distribute weight extremely well that doesn knock you off balance. This is the only flaw with BlackHawk gear, is that is messes up your center of gravity. When I knew people who were doing their active time with Delta Force, the most common aftermarket accessory was a Dana Designs backpack, don't know the model but one of their smaller internal designs, dyed black, eventually special ordered some in black material.

Function get a Mountainsmith, Dana Designs, Gregory (my favorite), Arctryex, etc rock pack.

LBE can't be beat for cost, but why would you wear something that chafes that badly if you didn't have to? LBE's need to be set up correctly which is a real art as any prior or active duty soldier will agree. Replace the clips with 550 cord. This prevents those sharp steel clips from cutting you or coming loose or getting hung up on things. Keep in mind the military doesn't use what is best, but what is cheapest. Foreign LBE type web gear is usually MUCH more functional.

LBV works better but is SUPER HOT and only comes in funky tactical colors.



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"Women bring life into the world
and much death, for they sway the
destinies of men." -Anneas
 
I have a jump kit I keep in my car in a Blackhawk 3 day assault pack. I love that pack, but find its a tad big for my daily travel (by bus) to the "big city" where I work, so I put some essentials into a much smaller day pack for that purpose. Those essentials include a first aid kit (with some specialized stuff like lip balm, eye wash, safety pins, etc), a half liter of water, sweater (I'm already wearing a jacket), some food (trail mix, granola bars), flash light, city map, and some other odds and ends.

I also have a really good cargo vest, mesh lined, lots of big pockets (not the magazine carrying kind the military types like), and in the back country I also wear cargo pants. I can pack half the stuff in the bigger three day pack in my vest and cargo pants leaving more room in the pack for yet more stuff (like food), but in the car I keep all the essentials in the pack in case I have to grab and go quickly.

But here's the rub... If I fully pack the cargo vest, its hard to wear the pack because the shoulder straps will crush what ever is in the upper pockets. Even if the contents aren't crushable, they get pushed against my chest/shoulders and become very uncomfortable. Also, if I pack everything to its maximum capacity, its all so heavy I can barely carry it, and I sure as hell can't climb (I'm talking about walking UP hill, not real climbing) with it, my knees just won't take that kind of weight.

For a great start on "what to carry" sort of lists see http://www.sonic.net/~quine/jumpkits.html



[This message has been edited by matthew rapaport (edited 10-07-2000).]
 

Hi All,

My two cents:

Basic points:
1) I like to layer my survival items too. Survival pouch, multitool, sheath knife and possibly a water bottle on body if not wearing backpack. If backpack comes, water bottle goes into side mesh pocket and further items go into the top pocket and inside of the backpack. Current outdoor backpack: EMS 3000 cubic inch black pack (only color on sale for $74 but makes me really tactical
smile.gif
). I found it optimal size and comes with padded back support, shoulder straps and waist belt as any larger pack. I dislike 'bookbags' and this 3000c. incher can be strapped down to the size of a bookbag but can be expanded to a full backpack with the comfort of bigger packs. It is nylon. Therefore strong, light and easily waterproofable. No canvas military stuff for me, please. They are heavy, soak water, dry hard, mildew quickly. No objection to military look though. One can just find comparable or better quality on a larger spectrum on the civil market, in my opinion.

Pouch has typically: fire starters (matches, flameless butane torch, metal match, NO ZIPPO, vaselined cotton balls, Coglan compressed waterproof tinder rod), parachute cord, monofilament, snare wire, small fishing hooks, safety pins, mirror compass, signal mirror, Fresnel lens, iodine, 2AA Maglite, bandana, Gerber Gator (I know it is no Sebenza but cheap, komfy, LIGHT and seems to have a stronger Zytel handle than many other flat-slab folders), coathanger wire shaped to fit into pouch, DMT folding small diamond sharpener, Mylar survival bag, 2 sterile disposable scalpel blades wrapped antiseptically, emergency whistle. Missing: waterproof light and photon light, water ballons or condoms

Backpack is customized for 'mission'. Backpack max 'survival' load: two 1 quart Nalgenes in side mesh pockets, Fiskars folding saw, U-dig It folding spade, poncho, survival blanket, large plastic bags, more parachute cord, more matches and BIC lighters, larger sheath knife, small medical kit. Recently left out for weight reasons: Nuvick survival candle, chain pocket saw, Tommy stove with 6 fuel cubes inside, binocs if weight allows. Dromedary bag attached for water carry. I still dislike Camalbacks and drinking tubes for sanitary reasons. Missing: light and versatile aluminum pot, energy efficient head-light, ax maybe, second pair of glasses.

2) I try to keep essentials on my body. Pouch is on belt even if wearing backpack with waist belt secured. Then pouch is in front. Bit awkward but acceptable compromise. Well, sheath knife is still a problem to keep on body when pack is on. I am still looking for the solution.

3) Top loader backpacks are more versatile than vests or LBE's. For weight reduction, I would choose one with few pockets and bells and whistles, but with ouside strap attachment possibilities. Some are even submersibly waterproof. I still yet to see an ideal, completely modular carry system that blends in the advantages of the load carrying capacity of backpacks with the organisation of the much liked tactical vests.

4) Although vests, tactical vests and LBEs and alike were appealing to me I haven't chosen them for the following reasons:
- good ones are quite expensive
- they exclude the wear of heavy backpacks (so break the rule of modularity of the layers)
- if they cotton they are heavy and can get suggy (stick to lighter, stronger polymers)
- they can interfere with clothing
- pockets limit size and arrangement of content
- the more pockets the heavier it gets.

Sorry if it came out too long but will serve some help, hopefully.

HM
 
The two packs I’ve come to prefer are the Mountainsmith (MS) tour pack and the Dana Designs Bomb Pack.

The tour pack is an 800 ci (I think) lumbar pack that uses MS’s delta v (or something like that) strap system. This is the same system that MS uses on the hip belts of their mid-capacity internal frame packs. It doesn’t use any padding but consists of two wide v-shaped sheets of nylon. Cinch straps run from the center point at the front of the pack to the sides of the hip belt. Cranking down on these straps stabilizes the load and locks it into the small of your back. I have never felt a pack move with me like this one does. It also has two external mesh pockets that barely hold a 32oz nalgene each, but carrying water in them tends to throw the load off.

The best part about the tour pack is that I can carry my Nimravus or Air Assault strapped to the side of the body of the pack (It took a little adjusting but I can show any one interested). When I’m carrying a larger internal frame, the tour pack rides up front on my abdomen, knife ready for strong hand draw. When larger pack comes off, tour pack gets rotated around to back, knife ready for cross draw. It’s a great place for anything survival-related that should never leave your side.

My Dana Design Bomb Pack is another great pack for light trips. It was designed by a ski patrol who wanted a pack to carry their avalanche charges in (hence (bomb pack). It’s 3100 ci with one main compartment and a small map pocket. Simple design that fits just about anyone like a glove.
 
Switcback, I agree with your concept of arrengement which is similar to the one I prefer.
The MS tour pack sounds like the ticket to go. I would be certainly interested in some photos of your Nimravus fixed on its hip belt.
Certainly, both MS and Dana make excellent packs. Furthermore, I also settled with a ~3000 c.i., single compartment, top-loading, internal frame backpack which seems to be the optimal for me. That covers all my needs for short trips.
My current pouch is: Jansport 100c.i., 6x6x3 inch small organizer. For $12 from Campmor. It is originally a side pocket for bigger backpacks that you can clip on and off. It also has belt loops. Mine is getting somewhat overstuffed recently.
So, post any photo if available.

Thanks,

HM

 
HM - I'll take some pictures of my tour pack/Nimravus setup tonight and hopefully have them posted by Thursday. It really is a good set up, I think. I find it particularly useful on busier trails because the knife handle and sheath tend to blend right in with the technical nature of the pack.
 
HM-

Here are the pictures I promised you of my Mountainsmith Tour Pack and Nimravus.

I started using this setup out of necessity and have grown to like it. At first glance it may appear big to you, especially when compared to the 100 c.i. Jansport you’re using now, but it handles pretty well. I think the key is the combination of the wide hip belt and plenty of lashing points. If I’m not mistaken, companies like Mountainsmith, LL Bean and Arc’Teryx have several models that fit the bill.

Check out http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=8000&prrfnbr=5298 for the Tour Pack specs. They happen to be having a sale on them, 30% off!

As for the set up, I use a stock 2nd generation Nimravus sheath simply threaded onto one of the cinch straps. The Air Assault was a little trickier. I used its standard LBE sheath in conjunction with a sleeve I made from 2” webbing stitched in four places. The sleeve is slid through the clip on the back of the sheath, running parallel with the knife. Then two hip belt cinch straps are slipped through, one above the clip and one below. If you look closely at the last picture, you may see stitch lines on the sleeve and things may make more sense.

When wearing the Tour Pack forward with a 2nd pack, the Tour Pack is worn with the buckle in the small of your back, and your backpack hip belt lays over of the Tour Pack belt and buckles beneath/behind it. This is probably similar to how you wear your Jansport.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1261985&a=9335913

Hopefully this will be of some assistance to you. I didn’t realize until I uploaded the pictures that my front and back views look a lot alike. You can’t tell immediately which way I’m facing
smile.gif
.

If you have any more questions don't hesitate...

Switchback


[This message has been edited by switchback (edited 10-12-2000).]
 
Switchback,
Thanks for the photos and the link to the Tour Pack. Also, for the detailed technical description.
Yes, that is pretty much how I imagined based on your previous post. I think it is a good set-up and I will move in this direction.
1) That definitely solves the problem of keeping the sheath knife (1) handy, (2) on body, (3) accessible even when backpack is on.
2) I like the arrangement of knife and water bottle being on opposite sides balancing each other somewhat.
3) The larger capacity of the Tour Pack will be very much needed if I would like to carry a poncho, some food or a windproof second layer.
I have a question though: It seems to me that I have seen on this pack (or maybe on another similar one) light shoulder straps. Is it my imagination? If there are such things they might stabilize the pack -if necessary- when it is used alone, without backpack. That might help when it is slightly off-balance with the water bottle -as you mentioned if I am correct.
I am going to be out of town this weekend but will definitely reflect when back.

Thanks again for the great suggestion.

HM

 
HM-
You may be thinking of something like the "Runabout" here http://www.mgear.com/mgear/dir_3.icl?SECID=4&SUBSECID=15&CATID=103&ORDERIDENTIFIER=ID971662881859042121. And if you haven't already, you may want to look further at http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=8000&cgrfnbr=4500634&seq=1&sort=1.

I've walked around a store with a pack similar to these weighted and it carried itself a little bit better than something without a shoulder harness. The real difference will probably show with heavier loads. It does look like you would have a pretty good selection of capacities, about 600 - over 1400c.i.. My guess is that the harness probably won’t make much of a difference in packs under, say, 800 c.i. but then again I’ve never had one of these on the trail.

To give you some idea of the capacity of my 600c.i. tour pack, I can fit two 32 oz nalgenes in its main internal pocket with room to spare. If I’m doing a day hike, I can carry in its internal pockets compact binoculars, small 35 mm camera with a couple rolls of film, compass and map, and a few Power Bars with room left over for a wind breaker or something of similar size.

Hope it helps.

Switchback
 
Bingo!!!

The Runabout looks like something I should look for. I very much like the detachable well padded shoulder harness. These lumbar packs come in a variety of sizes that makes finding the optimal one easier.
Switchback, thanks for looking it up for me. It definitely helped me a lot.

HM
 
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