What to do about this trade? What's ethical?

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LedZep13k7

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I recently traded with a guy a gayle Bradley for a sage 2.

The issue:
I received my knife so it's all good there. I shipped the GB the same day he shipped. He says he hasn't received it yet. It was to Canada from the US. I check the tracking the first time he asked and it said it has left the United States so I assumed it couldn't be tracked anymore so I threw the paper away. Now he still says he hasn't got it. It's been about a month. I don't know the guy at all but I don't think he would lie. So what should I do? I'm guessing it got lost in the mail or customs took it for some reason.


Help plz
Sorry If I posted in the wrong place. I figured I would get a community opinion.
 
Please send me an email or pm or visitor message.

Edit: Got it, replied
 
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You owe him the knife you promised him (or the money for one) or you send his back and refund his shipping cost... period.
 
LedZep13k7 said:
I recently traded with a guy a gayle Bradley for a sage 2.

The issue:
I received my knife so it's all good there. I shipped the GB the same day he shipped. He says he hasn't received it yet. It was to Canada from the US. I check the tracking the first time he asked and it said it has left the United States so I assumed it couldn't be tracked anymore so I threw the paper away. Now he still says he hasn't got it. It's been about a month. I don't know the guy at all but I don't think he would lie. So what should I do? I'm guessing it got lost in the mail or customs took it for some reason.


Help plz
Sorry If I posted in the wrong place. I figured I would get a community opinion.
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Not to make you feel bad about the situation, but I'll never understand why people throw away they're only proof that they have shipped the item, before the person actually gets it in their hands.Not that I haven't made mistakes in my life, but someone that's been here as a member even a short while should be well schooled not to fall into these same pit traps that others have posted the same buying/selling and trading woe's.Now what to do? Well, you can hope it's just really delayed, but sounds like your gonna have to eat the cost on your end.You threw away the paperwork, so I'm not gonna even ask if the knife was insured cause it would be moot.Good luck though.
 
The most common sense thing to do is keep all paperwork until you have written verification by the other party that they have in fact received the item you've sent. There are people that don't even throw them away at all. In this case, there are insufficient details to determine what is "ethical". Was the knife against Canadian Law, was it in a condition where it could be considered a gravity knife? Was it packaged properly? Did you ship it in a way that it would safely get to it's new owner (not the cheapest method)? Too many questions and too few answers.

I've bought knives from Canadian forum friends. Each time, it took 7 business days for the knife to get from there to my mailbox. The last item I shipped to Canada took 3 weeks to clear customs and that was a small AAA flashlight.

Here is an example of what I do. When I ship a knife, I wrap the box in bubble wrap and tape it closed. I then place the wrapped knife into a box or bubble wrap mailer, and then give it a few spins with tape. I then affix the address and guess what? More tape, in case someone drops it into water or it gets rained on, the address remains pristine. I mail it off and photograph the receipt and the DC number. I then immediately email or message the information to the recipient. I do all this because that is what I expect when I buy a knife from someone.

He can't even check customs on his end if he has no customs number. Simple things that could have been done to prevent this in the forst place.
 
barcbsa said:
You owe him the knife you promised him (or the money for one) or you send his back and refund his shipping cost... period.
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I agree.

You are really in a trick-bag now, and are about to learn a few lessons the hard way.

1. CYA. Always ship using a service that will give you proof of delivery, preferably with a signature required, especially if shipping international, and SAVE YOUR RECEIPT. If the International buyer/trader doesn't want you to put a value on it tell him to take a hike. The taxes and duties his country charges are his problem and should be no concern of yours.
2. Insurance is for the seller (or in your case the trader shipping the knife), not the buyer. Imagine this scenario were reversed and he got the knife you shipped him, but you didn't get the knife he shipped you. If you never got it, it was never yours and you would want to be made whole.

Let's say he just wants his knife back. Sounds easy enough.
Don't forget that you are responsible to get his knife back in his hands. If it gets lost/confiscated or for whatever reason does not make it to him you will have to replace that one too. So CYA and insure it right?
Not so fast. You will be shipping this knife into the same void the last one disappeared into so why not insure it? If you insure the return of his knife back to Canada that will automatically be the declared value, and it will cost as much as 40% in fees and taxes for him to get it back. He shouldn't have to pay that so you will be out another $40-$50 +.
Spend $40-$50 on top of the shipping and insurance cost just in case a $120-$140 knife gets lost? Might better just ship it back as a zero value gift, but still get delivery confirmation.
Of course if that gets lost, you get nothing but the shipping charges back and you will still owe your trading partner a knife.

I suggest just paying him fair value for the knife he says he never got (and you can't prove otherwise), if he will agree, and be done with it.

Good luck!
 
Normally I would say too bad for the canadian but with you losing the tracking info that changes things. I would say either get this guy a knife or send his back. Its the right thing to do.
 
Here is the thing...you are not supposed to ship knives into Canada. They can ship knives here, you can't ship knives there....technically. If you shipped US Postal Service to Canada it very well can be stuck at the border for an untold amount of time until they kick it back to you and you paid for the box to float around en route for 2 months for nothing as you will not get reimbursed.

I suggest that you ship for this case only by UPS or something next time. They can pre clear customs for you. Your package is floating in limbo and maybe you should contact the post master general for both countries to locate it. I can message you how to ship next time so it will get there safe.
 
Well I tried to check my browsing history hoping it was still there and it wasn't....so I guess I'm biting the bullet on my end and buying him a gayle bradley. I agree with everything y'all said. We all screw up sometimes. I did get insurance but not much the USPS can do when it's out of the country's hands. Last time I checked it said departed United States. I learned my lesson the hard way. It may show up at my house...I don't think I'll ever ship knive international again, no offense to Canadians. It may be the last time I trade anything as well. Too risky and I have trust issues. Lol
 
broe said:
Here is the thing...you are not supposed to ship knives into Canada. They can ship knives here, you can't ship knives there....technically. If you shipped US Postal Service to Canada it very well can be stuck at the border for an untold amount of time until they kick it back to you and you paid for the box to float around en route for 2 months for nothing as you will not get reimbursed.

I suggest that you ship for this case only by UPS or something next time. They can pre clear customs for you. Your package is floating in limbo and maybe you should contact the post master general for both countries to locate it. I can message you how to ship next time so it will get there safe.
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What are you talking about? Pretty much all of my knives have come from members here on BF, all by USPS, and they have arrived in less than 2 weeks. There is no law about getting knives in the mail like you mention. NEVER ship to using UPS as they charge outrageous fees! USPS is the only way to go as it seamlessly integrates with our mail system.

For my deals with various members, I've always agreed that once it hits the border it's my problem, not the shipper's, all I've ever asked for is confirmation that it was sent.

To the OP, if it did get nabbed by Customs for whatever reason, the receiver will get a letter in the mail stating just that. Like others have mentioned, always keep all the paperwork until the deal is done.
 
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FLymon said:
....................I suggest just paying him fair value for the knife he says he never got (and you can't prove otherwise), if he will agree, and be done with it.

Good luck!
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I think that is pretty solid advice.

Sorry that it looks like your going to take a hit on this one, but your handling this the Right Way.
 
broe said:
Here is the thing...you are not supposed to ship knives into Canada. They can ship knives here, you can't ship knives there....technically. If you shipped US Postal Service to Canada it very well can be stuck at the border for an untold amount of time until they kick it back to you and you paid for the box to float around en route for 2 months for nothing as you will not get reimbursed.

I suggest that you ship for this case only by UPS or something next time. They can pre clear customs for you. Your package is floating in limbo and maybe you should contact the post master general for both countries to locate it. I can message you how to ship next time so it will get there safe.
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Danger Will Robinson= Very Bad and Misleading information here.

I believe this to be truthful:
What are you talking about? Pretty much all of my knives have come from members here on BF, all by USPS, and they have arrived in less than 2 weeks. There is no law about getting knives in the mail like you mention. NEVER ship to using UPS as they charge outrageous fees! USPS is the only way to go as it seamlessly integrates with our mail system.
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I'd contact the Buyer and try to agree on an equitable refund for his cost to purchase a comparable knife. Personally I'd rather not ship another knife unless I already had one in my pocession.

Maybe he can get a good deal on one?
 
"it has left the United States" It is now the Canadian's problem, once its in Canada, it becomes the problem for the buyer. You need to see if there is a way of obtaining another receipt of shipping from USPS.

More than likely the knife has been sized by Canada customs,as a gravity opening knife.This is NOT your problem, it's the receivers. This time of year is especially bad for Canucks, as customs will have students out of University/collage working for the summer. These kids will seize an item if it even wiggles.
 
Yes, you certainly can ship knives to Canada, as long as the knives are lawful for importation. You can't send some knives. like balisongs, push daggers, full automatics and there can be problems with knives that have d guards and folders that are loose enough to be flipped open from a fully closed position. But otherwise there should be no problem, although it is accurate and smarter to describe them as tools.

Terrible situation to be in , Zepp. But you can't, in effect, accuse the other guy of getting the knife and lying about it without proof, and, with respect, the onus was on you to send it in a way that can be proved or to get insurance. lesson for next time and that really sucks, I know. It is possible that the knife will turn up because customs sometimes take their sweet time with knives, but don't count on it.
As far as the purchaser being out of luck if it makes it out of the USA and gets seized or stolen in Canada, that would have to be agreed to by both purchaser and seller in advance. Technically, the property and therefore risk of loss passes according to intent and delivery is usually the point that happens. Nontechnically, you see most forumites have told you what they think the right thing to do is and if you want to sell more knives and have a good reputation I would take that into account as the usual expectation and business practice.
 
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Wait. The knife will likely arrive soon if it's "only" been about 4 weeks. Most likely the knife is at Canada Postal Customs. They have 2 locations: Toronto for the eastern half, Vancouver for the western half. Vancouver is more 'backed-up', often about 3 weeks.
I just posted this bit in a Schrade thread: i could find no way of contacting Canada Post Customs (they are part of Canada Customs, not Canada Post (i think) ) and so inquiry or claim is impossible.
If your package is inspected and sent on, it will be poorly padded, if at all, and poorly re-sealed, if at all.
If they open your package and decide to confiscate the knife (e.g., flickable), the addressee will be sent a note stating this.
My bet ? either the knife or the note will be there very soon.
roland
 
If you can remember the date you shipped it, and the PO you shipped it from, you could check with them, they may still have a record of the Customs Declaration number.
 
EDIT - I'll just repeat a post from a few months ago:

I've lost two knives to canada customs, and a third collectible kershaw was opened up and used hard before finally making it to the recipient, who then returned it to me.

I swore to myself: NEVER AGAIN.

But then I ended up drawing a canadian friend this year for a Secret Santa exchange. I did everything I was supposed to do. USPS express international, tracking and all that.

It took 3 1/2 weeks to arrive, well after Christmas.

So now I'm solid. NEVER AGAIN.
 
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Speaking in general, whatever money or time you may save upfront by taking the cheaper or easier way will not be worth it if something goes wrong. Assuming things does not lead to good outcomes. All of this needs to be considered and factored in before we decide to undertake the transaction. We need to take the time to think about what we'll do, or want to be done, if there's a problem. Often we don't because we're caught up in the excitement of the deal getting something new. It's hard to be mindful of things like this. I struggle with it at times but I'd rather be slow and steady beforehand than end up regretful later.

I hope this is just a case of a tardy delivery and that things work out with your trade.
 
I wouldn't risk buying another Gayle Bradley and then sending it again.
I would ask him if he'll take the money for it Via Paypal.
And then he can buy the knife with the money.
That way you don't have the risk of losing another knife if it's lost in Canada somewhere.

I think that's a fair way of handling it.
Either way you owe a knife or money but I would go the money route that way you don't lose two Gayle Bradleys.
 
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