What to do when....

BP_

BP_

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Aug 26, 2015
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I found a knife I really like the design of. I like the artists interpretation of the blade shape, length, and the handle shape as well. The problem is, that particular maker has a horrible reputation of taking years to fulfill some orders, and taking money only to never deliver others. That is not a road I even want to begin traveling (thanks to BF I found out the facts before I even attempted to contact the maker).

My question is, is it appropriate to commission another maker to duplicate that particular design? I feel like I'm walking on thin ice with something like that, and I would not want to disrespect anyone or do anything against any rules (wether those rules are written, or unspoken)

please educate me on this. thank you.
 
I'm actually really intrigued by this question and am curious as to what the proper etiquette is, as well. Sorry I have nothing to offer, but I'm in for the responses.
 
I think its inappropriate, if not theft, and using " that particular maker has a horrible reputation of taking years to fulfill some orders, and taking money only to never deliver others" as an excuse to rip off his design is no excuse. :thumbdn:

You asked.
 
I don't look at it as an excuse. the fact of the matter is, I like the design. the flip side to that, is I also like my money. I would rather not give my money to a person with a bad reputation on BF, and elsewhere. It has nothing to do with anything more than wanting to protect myself.

the design is a Nessmuk style knife. definitely not a ripoff of anything original. I just liked the lines of this particular knife more than any others I have seen.

I did not disclose the name of the maker because I'm sure it is probably either frowned upon, against the rules, or both. I can understand this, especially since this person is fairly well known on BF as a person to steer clear of.

I do thank you for the response though. if that ends up being the majority consensus, I respect it.
 
It is doubtful the "artist" started his design from his original drawing; chances are he used a historical knife pattern/design as a starting point. If so, try to find the antique basis of his design and give that to a maker along with the tweaks you desire. The end result will be a knife very similar to the knife you desire.

As an example, Bark River knives base some of their knives on antique Marples knives. There is nothing wrong with this (and Bark River is transparent about this).

There are very few completely original knife designs.
 
I was once with my grandmother when she was caught steeling a tube of fixadent from shop rite. She checked out and spent $150 on groceries and then we were pulled aside as the manager asked her to pay for the tube of denture adhesive she had placed inside her purse.

When I asked why she had done that she said because they charged more than anywhere else for the stuff. It was still theft in both the managers and my eye, lol
 
AmosPaul said:
It is doubtful the "artist" started his design from his original drawing; chances are he used a historical knife pattern/design as a starting point. If so, try to find the antique basis of his design and give that to a maker along with the tweaks you desire. The end result will be a knife very similar to the knife you desire.

As an example, Bark River knives base some of their knives on antique Marples knives. There is nothing wrong with this (and Bark River is transparent about this).

There are very few completely original knife designs.
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i concur....have one similar made

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Unless it's copyrighted/trademarked then it's not theft in my eyes.


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I'm fairly certain there isn't a copyright on that particular knife (I would do more digging first if I was going that route), but the suggestion to use an original "template" and have it tweaked sounds like the best idea. I just really didn't want to offend anyone, or step on any toes. what it comes down to, is that I have only found one Nessmuk design I fell in love with and that was it. I'm enjoying everyone opinion though, that's why I asked. I know it has potential to be a dangerous subject.
 
Just make a drawing of the knife you want. Who cares what it looks like. Make the handle a bit different and you are covered.
 
bloody_pawprint said:
I don't look at it as an excuse. the fact of the matter is, I like the design. the flip side to that, is I also like my money. I would rather not give my money to a person with a bad reputation on BF, and elsewhere. It has nothing to do with anything more than wanting to protect myself.
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And, no doubt, the maker wants to protect his design also. Probably doesn't want other people using it.

You seem perfectly fine with going through with the process, and, that, of course, is your call.

I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't use "protecting myself" as an excuse.
 
I suspect that any of our "ethical" builders on this forum would refuse to get involved in a direct copy. They would hate to have their name stamped on it, as they would be ridiculed by their peers. How much profit does a builder need in order to defame his own name?
OTOH, if you were to send them pics, and offer ideas on how the design could be changed in a reasonable fashion, then you might get a knife.
You don't know unless you try.
IMO, forget any builder who has a lousy rep...it's highly likely that he earned it.
 
protecting myself would be not sending money to a person that has a reputation of not producing said product after payment has been made. in other words, I'm not stupid.

if I was perfectly fine with going through the process, I wouldn't have started a thread asking about the etiquette of this particular situation. after being educated on it, the decision is mine to make. I now agree, and understand why, this is something I just don't want to even be involved in attempting, for several reasons. to say I'm making any kind of excuse is rather short sighted, considering the reason this thread was started.

thank you to the people who were actually helpful, and offered an opinion on the question asked, not the person asking the question. I don't feel that anyone who comes to a public forum looking for advice is making an excuse about anything. I was on the fence, and now I understand why it is not a good idea. there are more factors that I even considered, when thinking about the moral etiquette of this. I'm glad I asked. that's one thing I love so much about BF. peer education. [emoji3]
 
Really you opened the can of worms. You liked a design, you didn't like the maker's practices, and you asked if that was justification for having someone else "duplicate" the guys design.

If it wasn't about the using the maker's practices as justification for "duplicating" his design, then I would think you wouldn't have brought it up, and just asked

"Is it acceptable to have one maker duplicate another maker's design?"
 
In my humble opinion, if you are commissioning a knife maker to make a specific, known pattern then this is perfectly acceptable. For example, a knife maker manufacturing a Barlowe pattern in particular materials is an established practice from what I understand. Another example would be the Kephart pattern which is made by several different makers such as Bark River and Fiddleback Forge. The difference is in each maker's "interpretation" of that pattern.

The Bark River Kephart:
kephart-3v-black-and-scarlet-maple-burl-1-ksf-339.95__33559.1458942334.290.220.jpg


and the Fiddleback Forge version:
1BA1EE0C-4181-498D-9A3A5A0C85049E0F_interiorgallery.jpg


If you compare both Kepharts by the aforementioned makers the idiosyncrasies of each are apparent and to copy those specific traits would be unethical. Again, in my opinion, the issue of trademark and copyright enter into this issue only from a legal perspective as opposed to an ethical perspective
 
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that is essentially what I asked. just because I justified my reason for asking, does not make it an excuse. I asked a question, and got an answer. if I was "fine with it" or had felt no moral obligation to ask, I wouldn't have. it seemed like something that may not be looked very highly upon, so before taking it upon myself to just do it, I asked the great people here on the forums. it was the respectful thing to do in my opinion, because I felt there could be an argument for either way. as I said before, I appreciate the education on the etiquette of knife making and artistic design within the realm of knife making.
 
no it's not Dustin Turpin, I have learned my lesson on that gentleman just from reading the threads on him here on the forums.
 
bloody_pawprint said:
no it's not Dustin Turpin, I have learned my lesson on that gentleman just from reading the threads on him here on the forums.
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Well, I'm glad my knife budget is so small that I can't afford a custom knife. Benchmade or Spyderco have much larger reputations to uphold. At least I know what I'm getting when I pay for a Buck 110 or a Benchmade Griptillian
 
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