What to use for quenching oil????

(getting out his little Kevin effigy)

I am C-R-U-S-H-I-N-G your head...crushing it....

Now send the blades for testing!

Shane

P.S. I am one of the few people who can actually qualify for the voodoo bladesemith role. I got the crystals and candles to prove it...

;)
 
All good and well gentlemen, there is clearly a lot of wisdom out there and it is interesting to see all the opinions. As a tool and die maker I prefer the ones based on science because in the trade you cannot hope for the best but I do agree there is room for a bit of voodoo and many a strange and wonderful thing has been done by old timers with nothing but gutfeel in their barns.
However... and this is a valid question. When you sell an expensive knife to a man paying good, hard-earned money he generally would like to hear that more than voodoo went into the hardening of his expensive blade.
To the best of my knowledge the hardness is normally measured with special equipment. Just HOW accurately can hardness be measured with a file or something and, just how critical is the hardness to edgeholding ability?
Not throwing any curve balls here, just genuinely do not know and would LIKE to know. I am just getting started with the knives and could write a thick book about things I do not know yet. :confused: :D
Sincerely
 
Miden: excellent thoughts, all science is trial and error, lots of error and some things that work. Some think and at one time I also believed that hardness predicted cut and sometimes it does. But if you play around with enough trial and error (science) one day (providing you stick with it using an open mind) you will find a blade that Rockwells 59 - 60 that can scratch a 62 Rc steel, but a file will cut into the blade, this blade will outcut any blade you have ever made. Then you will begin to explore the world of cut and find it not as simplistic as it sounds.
 
Ed,
Thanks you for the compliment regarding the thoughts.
It seems that many opinions are exactly that. Opinions. Most are very well intended though and very interesting.
Nothing is cast in stone. For instance, I read an editorial by a very well known knifemaker once and in it he gave opinions of some steels and his style of writing was somewhat brusque and dismissive of most steels.
This fellow in fact said that "52100 is used to make ball bearings and ball bearings are round with no sharp edges, you figure out the rest!"
I see that this is in fact YOUR steel of choice and your knives have proven themselves beyond any reasonable doubt. Maybe you are one of those old timers with the gutfeel in the barn!:D

I look forward to exploring the world of cut, I have no doubt that it is everything BUT simplistic but then this is the beauty of it all.
I find it fascinating that a little bit of something in a steel can have such a profound affect on it. For instance, pig iron is pretty useless but add 0.5 % of Carbon and you have Mild Steel which is so widely used every day for so many things.

I also hope that nothing I have said has offended anyone. I have found knife makers to be a league of extraordinary gentlemen because since I have become interested in this game I have found people that are so willing to freely give information, advice and encouragement and I would hate to offend any of you.

Sincerely :)
 
One of the most significant choices a knife maker makes is the steel he will use. the wrold of 52100 knows more competition than any other steel, entire texts have and are being written about its development and quality in relation to service to man.

Another good steel is quality 5160, Dan Gray has some for sale that we use in our seminars, the steel he provided us has proven itself as having excellent potential for high performance blades.

Many blades fail due to factors that occur before the knife maker ever touched the steel. These faults can be devestating to the knife maker as well as the man who finds himself in a situation where he really needs a knife and must use it in some manner other than cut.

My sugestion is simple - start out with what ever junk steel you can get ahold of, develop your abilities, throw the first blades away then get some quality material, attend a good school or two, and get started using materials that are capable of developing honest potential quality blades.

Good Luck Sir
 
"Many blades fail due to factors that occur before the knife maker ever touched the steel. These faults can be devestating to the knife maker as well as the man who finds himself in a situation where he really needs a knife and must use it in some manner other than cut."

I am so glad you mentioned this Ed.

Very, very good point!!

In my job as tool and die maker I have encountered this a few times!
While machining steel you find something strange in there or after having professional heat treatment done to steel there is something just not right with the way it performs the task!

While I have you at my disposal :D I have to ask you this question please.
This may again be a question of opinion and personal choice but what sort of grind is best for a working knife....hollow or flat?
The few knives I have made have been of hollow ground ATS 34. They have not performed very well, as I told a gentleman called WYK in another topic review (Anybody forge bowies/fighters using M2 steel/) also under discussion at this time. (I built my own hollow grinder)
I notice that your knives are flat grind, in fact if anything, a little convex, like the typical sword blade!? There must be a reason for this or is it just personal choice?

Thank you for your good wishes and your advice so far Sir.
 
Minden: It is an extreme pleasure to converse with someone who has worked with steel when stuff that works is of concern.
A few months go I wrote an article in Blade Magazine about an experiment we conducted comparing mild steel hollow ground, flat ground, mild convex ground and heavy convex ground blades.
While I don't have the results infront of me, the hollow grind was weakest, flat grind only a little better, slight convex suprisingly stronger and the heavy convex only a little stronger. The blades all weighed about the same.

The mild convex provided the greatest advantage for the mass of the steel.

What I call the complex convex grind or "modified Michael Price Grind" is an absolute wonder to behold. It is a blend of mild convex where you want your blade to flex and heavy convex where you need strength and support for the tip of the blade. Students who attend our seminars leave as true believers of what a working knife can be. There is no end to what we can achieve when we follow the science of trial and error, along with a little imagination.

I also am enjoying our conversation
Take Care Friend
 
I have not afforded proper time to read all postings to this thread so forgive any redundant speak please.

My opinion of oil quenchant, as I have determined, has been to over the past couple to several years base a personal opinion of who I place faith in most. There are three basic quenchants, oil being one and the most diverse of the three from my gathering of information. I, not convining myself to a specific oil quench steel but rather several steels, the object for me has been to general purpose the quenchant I use. I do not carry a budget or the space for specifics so I general purpuse a good quenchant. It is Brownell's Though-Quench I use. For the steels I use and most probably the steels you too will use it is most acceptable, I believe. Quenching temperature and time in quench per steel type and thickness is another study too. That can only be accomplished with experience. Practice in how the steel is swept through the quenchant as it quenches is also imperative. It must become automatic, without thought of doing so, because things you are responsible for are at hand almost simultaniuos to that. Of all the work involved, which is rememorable to each blade, the heat treat is the phase that makes your knife a knife - or not.

RL
 
Back to the topic...which is QUENCHING OILS for $1000 please Alex...

Thanks ROGER for getting us back on track....

Shane
 
So THAT is what a hijack is!
I just joined on Friday so I can claim innocent ignorance. :o :foot:
Sorry about that, I have been known to digress. It all started with voodoo and people crushing other peoples heads..... :)

Mike
 
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