What Type of Stainless Liners

Ok I'll bite.
What would be an "impressive", "high performance", or "high end" liner material?
(what exactly is a "high performance" liner??)
It also has to be cost effective and not introduce other problems due to the nature of the material chosen.

And please list some "impressive" and "high end" liner materials used by other manufacturers, since you seem to think Benchmade is cutting corners by using 400 series stainless.

And are you talking about perceived performance or actual? In what way would a S30V liner outperform the 400 series stainless liner?
 
Virtually all stainless steels will rust under the right circumstances, except maybe H1 and LC200N. Even steels with excellent corrosion resistance, like M390/20CV/204P, will rust when exposed to sweat and high humidity, if they are not cleaned and protected periodically.

But we're talking about liners, and corrosion resistance cannot be our sole consideration. Many 400 series stanless steels have excellent corrosion resistance. Some also have other traits that are desirable in an AXIS lock liner, like strength, toughness and hardenability. I'm sure Benchmade is trying to strike the right balance between these qualities for proper performance. H1 is the king of corrosion resistance, but I suspect its far too soft to be the liner material for an AXIS lock. That pin and those liners have to have some serious hardness to keep these locks from wearing out too soon. Just like with a blade, you have to consider several factors when selecting materials.
 
Another reason to not say - the specific steel may vary over time based on price or availability.

As soon as they make a statement about what they use, they could be pressured to point out when it changes, document what’s used for various knives, etc. If few people care, it’s simpler to not say.
 
karnaknives said:
Ok I'll bite.
What would be an "impressive", "high performance", or "high end" liner material?
(what exactly is a "high performance" liner??)
It also has to be cost effective and not introduce other problems due to the nature of the material chosen.

And please list some "impressive" and "high end" liner materials used by other manufacturers, since you seem to think Benchmade is cutting corners by using 400 series stainless.

And are you talking about perceived performance or actual? In what way would a S30V liner outperform the 400 series stainless liner?
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My point is that listing materials is in part done to create an impression of the knife as high end and high performance. And this impression would be diminished by listing liner steels that are scoffed at as blade materials even if the diminishment occurs unconsciously. Why cause a potential buyer to have M390 and 410 in mind when you could have the buyer have M390 only in mind. An expensive steel used as a liner material would carry the cachet of being advanced and high end.

Delta-v said:
Virtually all stainless steels will rust under the right circumstances, except maybe H1 and LC200N. Even steels with excellent corrosion resistance, like M390/20CV/204P, will rust when exposed to sweat and high humidity, if they are not cleaned and protected periodically.

But we're talking about liners, and corrosion resistance cannot be our sole consideration. Many 400 series stanless steels have excellent corrosion resistance. Some also have other traits that are desirable in an AXIS lock liner, like strength, toughness and hardenability. I'm sure Benchmade is trying to strike the right balance between these qualities for proper performance. H1 is the king of corrosion resistance, but I suspect its far too soft to be the liner material for an AXIS lock. That pin and those liners have to have some serious hardness to keep these locks from wearing out too soon. Just like with a blade, you have to consider several factors when selecting materials.
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I think you make a good point that by making a steel choice someone compromises on different traits. I think like you say Benchmade does try to strike a balance between strength, toughness, and corrosion resistance but also importantly cost. I didn't claim that 410 and more so 420j are not good for their purposes, but there are steels that would be perform better in the areas you listed. I do think cost should play a role in steel choice, but I think the decision Benchmade made some years ago to stop listing liner steels is due to the fact that they don't want their customers focused on how compromises were made in the production of the knife to lower costs.

cannelbrae said:
Another reason to not say - the specific steel may vary over time based on price or availability.

As soon as they make a statement about what they use, they could be pressured to point out when it changes, document what’s used for various knives, etc. If few people care, it’s simpler to not say.
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This is an excellent point and something I hadn't thought of. Listing a material may limit flexibility if someone chooses to change that material.
 
kniveslikethese said:
My point is that listing materials is in part done to create an impression of the knife as high end and high performance. And this impression would be diminished by listing liner steels that are scoffed at as blade materials even if the diminishment occurs unconsciously. Why cause a potential buyer to have M390 and 410 in mind when you could have the buyer have M390 only in mind. An expensive steel used as a liner material would carry the cachet of being advanced and high end.
Click to expand...
I think you're greatly overestimating the number of people who care what the type of steel the liner is made of. The only thing most people care about is the blade steel and handle material. I'm an anodizing nut, so I always try and find if any parts are titanium so I can heat anodize it.
 
tokerblue said:
I think you're greatly overestimating the number of people who care what the type of steel the liner is made of. The only thing most people care about is the blade steel and handle material. I'm an anodizing nut, so I always try and find if any parts are titanium so I can heat anodize it.
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If the comments on this thread are reflective of knife users in general, you're right. Have you ever anodized a 761 or 790?
 
kniveslikethese said:
If the comments on this thread are reflective of knife users in general, you're right. Have you ever anodized a 761 or 790?
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I'm not sure what type of titanium it is. I just take a butane torch to anything titanium and see if it changes color. I've done all my ZT titanium framelocks, clips, etc. Anything else like chopsticks, keychains, tools, etc. I'll just heat it until I get the color I'm looking for.
 
tokerblue said:
I'm not sure what type of titanium it is. I just take a butane torch to anything titanium and see if it changes color. I've done all my ZT titanium framelocks, clips, etc. Anything else like chopsticks, keychains, tools, etc. I'll just heat it until I get the color I'm looking for.
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I meant have you ever anodized a Benchmade 761 or 790.
 
I don't own any titanium Benchmades. I have anodized titanium clips for them. I'll post up pictures of the knives I've anodized if I can find them. Emerson CQC-10 (custom), ZT0777, ZT0707.
 
kniveslikethese said:
Yes please do. I'd like to see your work.
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Just used a simple butane torch.

eIvzGVp.jpg


q3yiU1c.jpg
 
I like the consistency of the coloring on that first knife. I'm used to seeing timascus, and I appreciate the relative subtlety of your coloring. Does the process weaken the titanium?
 
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kniveslikethese said:
I like the consistency of the coloring on that first knife. I'm used to seeing timascus, and I appreciate the relative subtlety of your coloring. Does the process weaken the titanium?
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I don't think it weakens it, but I'm not metallurgist. Some companies like Strider heat color their titanium. I've never had a problem with any of the things I've done it to.
 
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