What would be Crucible steel contender against BU M390? S110V?

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MobileFireLord

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I have been wondering about Crucible contender against M390. As many of you know and like this BU M390 for its corrosion resistance, wear resistance and hardness.

I do really like S110V, but I have heard that S110V is very difficult to work with it. Is there any CMP steel that has similar corrosion resistance alongside with wear resistance as well? Your advice is very much appreciated.


Your fellow Steel snob,


MFL
 
S110v is pretty awesome. If you want to work with steels in that class it's time to look at diamonds
 
I don't think any Crucible steels can compete with M390. IM not sure who makes 20CV now days but bohlers process is superior and makes a tougher steel even with the same composition.

S110V has much more wear resistance but is not even close in toughness. M390 is as tough as many simple carbon steels at the same hardness and is much tougher than them when you get to 62+
 
KalEl said:
I don't think any Crucible steels can compete with M390. IM not sure who makes 20CV now days but bohlers process is superior and makes a tougher steel even with the same composition.

S110V has much more wear resistance but is not even close in toughness. M390 is as tough as many simple carbon steels at the same hardness and is much tougher than them when you get to 62+
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Carpenter bought Latrobe (makers of 20CV) a few years back, and 2 years ago We in the process of selling to someone else. I don't think Crucible makes anything readily available that compares with M390, but i could be wrong. Carpenter does make CTS-204P which is very similar.
 
KalEl said:
I don't think any Crucible steels can compete with M390. IM not sure who makes 20CV now days but bohlers process is superior and makes a tougher steel even with the same composition.

S110V has much more wear resistance but is not even close in toughness. M390 is as tough as many simple carbon steels at the same hardness and is much tougher than them when you get to 62+
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Why do you say bohlers process is better that crucible? Crucible actually started making 20cv, survive knives are using it for their stainless line.
 
Ankerson said:
CPM 20CV is Crucibles vers of M390.
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That's right! I was forgetting that it was still being made. For some reason I kept thinking it was out of production since it is rarely seen on many knives these days.
 
My SurviveKnives 3.5 in CPM-20CV arrives tomorrow. Happy. A long pre-order but I bet it's worth it.
 
knife chop said:
Why do you say bohlers process is better that crucible? Crucible actually started making 20cv, survive knives are using it for their stainless line.
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I think Bohlers PM process allows for greater toughness with high alloy content steels. Their steels also tend to work and finish better than Crucible steels with similar alloy content but that is just my experience.

Look at S30V vs. M390 or ELMAX. They are fairly similar in alloy content. M390 has more chromium and carbon but is tougher, has better edge holding, and likely better stain resistance. Its just a superior steel. Not to mention you can push it to 64 before it starts getting chippy. Try that with S30V. Likewise ELMAX has more chromium and carbon with less V, but depending on HT can beat S30V in edge retention when run at 62 and can blow it out of the water in toughness down at 58-59.

In my opinion Bohler is the industry leader in PM steels. Carpenter has been putting out some interesting stuff lately but its not looking like anyone is competing with what Bohler has to offer in steels like ELMAX and M390.

EDIT

Actually I forgot about CTS 204p. I've never used it but its almost the same as M390 alloy wise. Not sure how it stacks up in toughness but from the testing I have seen they are very close in edge retention.
 
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It seems to me comparing Crucible against Bohler Udderholm, particle metallurgy have moved to 3rd generation where ground metal particles are much finer.

I think I have heard some of the members were mentioning S120V is rather brittle (chipping and what not). I feel unenthusiastic that S110V is not as tough (I take it's ductility)

So, the contenders are BUM390, CTS 204P, S20CV?
 
Meh, cpm m4 will handily outperform it in all but stain resistance. And m4 is still quite stain resistant and ridiculously easy to maintain.
 
KalEl said:
M390 is as tough as many simple carbon steels at the same hardness and is much tougher than them when you get to 62+
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Definitely no... its just impossible for the higher carbide/alloy steel to be tougher than the plain carbon steel. The highest strength/toughest structure you can have in steel is tempered martensite. M390 won't be able to compete any simple carbon steel when it come to toughness.

I have done numerous test on both CTS-204P and M390 on my Para2 and GSO4.1. I don't think M390 is a tough steel by any means. At least it is much likely to chip/deform on hard use than S30V at similar hardness.
 
I would gladly put a M390 blade at 61-62 and .01 behind the edge up against a 1095 blade at the same hardness and geometry. The M390 blade will be tougher and have much less chipping during hard cutting. The M390 blade may also take more abuse before catastrophic failure.

ELMAX blades when given the correct tempering can absolutely be as tough as steels like 1095 and 01 at their optimum hardness of around 58.

This is from my personal testing and experience. Maybe some other makers can chime in with their experiences but I think it will be pretty similar.

As for M390 vs S30V, I firmly believe M390 is superior in every way, especially in edge stability. Keep in mind M390 is very difficult to HT and production knives may not have the kind of HT and hardness to bring out the best in a high alloy steel. M390 needs a very strict HT regimen and need to be brought to 62 to really shine.
 
KalEl, are there any companies that you can think of that might have the heat treating process on m390? Like benchmade?
 
I personally, from just simple usage of a Para2 and Southard (CTS-204P, which I have heard their PM process is 3rd gen. vs. Bholer's 2nd gen.) and a Manix 2 in S110V, much prefer S110V. M390 and CTS-204P being super tough? Not from my experience. Not bad, but not anywhere near M4 or CRUWEAR. Here is a shot of what my Southard looked like after it hit one staple while opening a box. I have since had it reground to about .010" behind the edge and it did hold up very well while eating up some cardboard. My CRUWEAR Military on the other hand has hit staples and shrugged it off. That is some tough steel. Again all of this comes from usage and no testing/controls has been done.




I fixed the rolls/chips, but you can see the very tip is actually not apexed.
 
KalEl said:
I think Bohlers PM process allows for greater toughness with high alloy content steels. Their steels also tend to work and finish better than Crucible steels with similar alloy content but that is just my experience.

Look at S30V vs. M390 or ELMAX. They are fairly similar in alloy content. M390 has more chromium and carbon but is tougher, has better edge holding, and likely better stain resistance. Its just a superior steel. Not to mention you can push it to 64 before it starts getting chippy. Try that with S30V. Likewise ELMAX has more chromium and carbon with less V, but depending on HT can beat S30V in edge retention when run at 62 and can blow it out of the water in toughness down at 58-59.

In my opinion Bohler is the industry leader in PM steels. Carpenter has been putting out some interesting stuff lately but its not looking like anyone is competing with what Bohler has to offer in steels like ELMAX and M390.

EDIT

Actually I forgot about CTS 204p. I've never used it but its almost the same as M390 alloy wise. Not sure how it stacks up in toughness but from the testing I have seen they are very close in edge retention.
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You have a good point. I've linked some m390 abuse as well as CPM 20cv. Tell me what you think.

http://youtu.be/lNfkY0QHPm4

http://youtu.be/gFzI9U64bjg

and then you have an ELMAX Zero Tolerance that that chipped or rolled from cutting a zip tie

http://youtu.be/qd_QEJTDi0s
 
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knife chop said:
You have a good point. I've linked some m390 abuse as well as CPM 20cv. Tell me what you think.

http://youtu.be/lNfkY0QHPm4

http://youtu.be/gFzI9U64bjg

and then you have an ELMAX Zero Tolerance that that chipped or rolled from cutting a zip tie

http://youtu.be/qd_QEJTDi0s
Click to expand...

And then you have my ZT 0770CF Review here. ;)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1183334-Full-review-ZT-0770-CF-and-Video

And countless M390 reviews by me in the review section of various knives.... If you do a search....

Here is the latest.....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...810-1401-Contego-in-M390-Full-review-and-test
 
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