What would you do if a LEO tried to confiscate your "Legal" knife??

If he asks for your knife , stick your hand in your pocket and pull it out real fast.....
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OK, this is the deal as far as I am concerned. In this state (KY) if you have concealed carry permit it covers knives, nuchakus, expandable batons etc. as well as guns. If you are in your car for a minor traffic violation then there is no reason for me to ask what you are carrying. If for some reason I have to ask you out of the car, I am going to pat you down. Terry v. Ohio gives me that right. I will ask you before hand if you have any guns, knives, needles, bazookas, hand grenades, or anything else that could be used as a weapon. If you have even a pen knife, I will take it for the duration of our contact. If you are arrested then it will go to jail with you and be booked into your personal property. If it is expensive and you would rather I book it into property at the police station then I will do that and you can get it after you get out of jail. if you are not arrested then you will get the knife back when we part ways. You're cooperation in making me feel a little safer will go a long way towards both of us being happy. IMHO if an officer takes a knife from you for his own personal use that is theft and you should report him. If it happens that you were doing something bad with the knife and he gives you the option of going to jail or dropping the knife in the nearest garbage can then you have to decide what you want more. Remember, anything thrown away is abandoned property. I have never taken a knife from someone this way but once saw another cop take a cheap balisong from an 18 year old that way. Since the kid did not want to go to jail for CCDW (he had no permit) I think a $10 butterfly was a small price to pay. Some may consider this some type of bribery, but when officers hands are tied to the point that they can only arrest people and no officer discretion is allowed, no one is happy. Remember I am pro-gun and definitely a knife nut and as long as the person is cool, I am more inclined to talk with them about a mutual interest than to take their knife. BTW, most people carry junk.
 
My uncle the cop gave me 2 bits of advice that apply here...
1) Respectfully & politely take down the officer's badge # and name.

2) Do not P.O. a P.O.
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That's my 24

Ebbtide out.
 
Ok, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: as long as we keep insisting that all knives are simply tools, we are giving up fundamental rights. Some knives are tools, some are weapons, and some are both, but if you have one that falls under one of the latter two categories, there is no reason why you can't call it a weapon. Unless you are a convicted felon, or other such 'person,' there is nothing that says you cannot defend yourself. The more people willingly give up their rights, the more those rights will be taken away. I have considered (an still am considering, for that matter) whether I want to stay in this country much longer, with the 'winds of change' blowing the way they are.

As for what to do in this situation, just remember that the officer is putting his/her life on the line every day for your safety. They deserve immensely more respect than they are given. If you are certain the knife is legal, and the officer isn't doing you a favor by simply taking the knife and not arresting you, then politely ask for a reciept, saying that you believe the knife to be legal. Don't get offended, and don't claim to be an expert on the law by simply having read a few statutes and none of the case law. They aren't out to get you, and they deal with enough jerks each day that we should set a good example for being responsible citizens by being polite and honest, and maybe that will help us in the long run.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Chances are, if a cop is in a situation where he's asking you if you are carrying any weapons, he's gonna notice the knife in your pocket/waistband anyways. Personally, I'd rather tell him ahead of time.

Having been asked by a cop if I carried any weapons, I asked what specifically he was looking for, and when his reply included the category knives, I pointed out the native riding in my pocket. I forgot about, and he obviously neither noticed or cared about, the swisstool on my belt. I wouldn't call a knife on my person a weapon. Not here, and not to a cop. Neither would I make any attempt to be a jack-ass and not point out the fact that I have a knife or two on me if asked by a cop if I am carrying any weapons.

That particular night, the knife came back to me when the officer bid me leave, just like he said it would. I don't know if the knife was high enough on my list of priorities at that time that I would have remembered to ask for it back had he not given it. Had the knife been a larger subject on that evening, I would have not wasted time arguing with him. The previous info regarding reciepts and badge numbers is the best advice I know.

Your typical cop has the misfortune of dealing primarily with criminals or suspected criminals. Kinda like a shepherd deals mostly with sheep. You need to do everything you can to be uncriminal, if you don't want to be treated like one.


Stryver
 
If you ask the officer for a receipt do you still need his name and badge#, or is that info on the receipt somewhere?

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"
 
Firstly, an Officer can't LEGALLY take something from a person simply because the Officer thinks it's illegal. If Ofc. Smith asks if you have any weapons or articles that could cause him injury, and you say "yes..." then he/she will remove you from the vehicle, etc...If the knife found, say in your right front pocket, is legal according to your state's penal/criminal code, but Ofc. Smith still takes it, then there's a serious problem. If the knife is illegal, and taken by Ofc. Smith, but you're not arrested, then another problem exists, because evidence to a crime can only be retrieved through a legal arrest or a search warrant (simply speaking). Even if the knife was illegal, it is still your personal property, and can't be taken from you by an Officer unless your under a legal arrest...It get really complicated...And I think too literally...

--dan
 
A good friend of mine who is a LEO in Kansas City(inner city) just finished reading all of this with me.
Here are his thoughts:
As far as "Sir, do you have any weapons in your car or on your person?" is concerned... Your answer is "I have an *POCKET knife but wouldnt consider it a weapon." or... "Please be more specific regarding what you consider to be a weapon".
At this point you've removed symantics from the conversation in terms of what a "weapon" is or is not.
*The word "pocket" knife is, in his eyes/ears, a much more benign item and it indicates that your reasons for having it are utility based. You'd never want to reply "Yes sir, i have a tactical folder in my pocket" which is probably the technical truth.
 

I've noticed on COPS that they usually ask:

"Do you have any weapons on you? Needles? Knives?" etc.. Separate questions. This to me shows that the LEO is making a distinction between actual weapons and other sharp (and legal) things.

I would just say "No sir, no weapons, but since you asked I do carry a knife in my front pocket for various utility tasks at home, work and while out and about." Then, if asked to elaborate, I would simply list off all of the mundane tasks that I had performed so far that day with my knife...

I'm usually very good with cops. I was in a situation in a park a few years ago where all of my friends had their jackets looked in and beers confiscated, while I'm standing there with five earrings, hair 3/4 of the way down my back and shaved on one side, concealed Endura, and beers in my coat. I was the polite and cooperative one, so guess who didn't get searched?

PM
 
Here in CA, it is legal to carry concealed a folder which is designed to be opened with two hands or the thumb of the hand holding the knife, of ANY blade length. A fixed blade of ANY length can also be carried openly.

There are some local jurisdictions which have more stringent laws, so YMMV.

If asked by an officer whether or not I have a weapon, my answer is always 'NO.' Saying, 'yes' ratchets up his anxiety level, and shifts his attention from the presumably mundane reason he stopped you. Should he ask me to step out of the vehicle (which has happened), and he happens to notice my pATAK or the clips of my folders, and comments on them (which has not happened), I would state that I don't consider them weapons. I carry the fixed blade so I can pry open a jammed car door at an accident site. The folders are for seat belts and emergency cricothyrotomies. I always carry my M.D. photo ID.

Always answer 'NO' when asked about weapons even if you are carrying multiple knives. The LEO is asking the question for his own safety. If you have no intent of attacking him, then your knives are not weapons.

Walt
 
I would turn it over, get a receipt, and follow the officer to the station. They should be going directly there because they shouldn't be driving around with "evidence" or "contraband" in their cruiser. Otherwise the chances are slim. It's unfortunate that this happens so often. But we're not all that way. As long as the situation was legal, I would always return it. Above all, I would never keep it. I know that doesn't help those who have lost one this way, but I feel strongly about it. I apologize for my somewhat "fallen" brothers.
 
I've had lots of experience in this area (from the non-cop point of view).

First thing, if you've got *serious* cutlery on you (obviously defense-capable), it's better to explain exactly where it is, show him by lifting covering clothing as appropriate, and in a perfectly normal tone of voice explain how to draw it if the sheath is at all tricky (kydex, etc). And you let him draw it. If he gives you clearance to draw it from the sheath, do so and hand it to him politely. Done that several times.

Don't get mad, act like this is perfectly normal.

If he wants to keep it and you know it's legal, phrases like (California version) "state law has changed recently, penal code 653k says that my Sifu isn't a switchblade and penal code 12020 section 24 says I can conceal it so long as it's folded when concealed".

If that don't work, ask politely for a reciept, or you'll wait while he calls a supervisor for advice. Explain that that is not a "junk throwaway", it's hand ground and serialized, and you're not going to tolerate it being flat-out taken without a paper trail.

ALL of this is stated in a perfectly normal tone of voice, with no underlying anger or "sense of threat". It's just plain fact.

I once got all the way to the confiscation and reciept phase. I was just putting three swords into a trunk, after finishing being a bridegroom in my roommate's costume wedding event at a local park - a REAL wedding, mind you. I was cited with a "dangerous weapons in the park ordinance" violation (an infraction) and given the ticket and a reciept. The DA dropped all charges, I got a note to that effect, went back to the PD and collected the goodies unharmed.

No problem.

The ability to keep a cool head is critical. If you can't do so, don't carry more dollar-value cutlery than you can afford to toss.

Both my daily carry blades bear serial number one. I don't have a temper problem
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Jim
 
Ok I asked this same question to some freinds of mine once I started carrying knives that cost more than 50 dollars. Two of them are transit cops in NYC another is a detective and yet another that is Emergency service ( read Swat ). They all pretty much said the same thing. Politly ask for a reciept. DOnt get all beligerent just say fine officer, may I have a reciept please. Now here is the problem with perceived legality. Each one of my police buddies bar none took my pocket carry and put it across his four closed fingers and declared it illegal and warned me to be careful. I informed them all that the law is four inches not four fingers as we have long since abandoned body parts as units of measure.

Now for some ugly truth. Sorry police officers who read this. If the knife IS illegal but you have commited no crime and the knife is really kind of spify it will be confiscated for his own amusement and should just be considered tax. It is not worth the legal BS in terms of expense or time from work. Almost pays to carry a half way desent knife because then you are almost assured it will never be an issue because it will disappear. I have lost and happily so two cold steel knives to this. If its a junkie knife and the officer is looking for some overtime you may have some problems. At least four of my cop buddies have goodie boxes of things they have "collected" over the years. If I tell you how many benchmade butterfly knives one has, you collectors would cry.

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ALex

http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua
 
dano, The officer can take something which he thinks is illegal. The officer will then be charging you with a crime. Or, the officer can take something and not charge you with a crime. If the officer offers to do so, and the item is illegal, then you should be quite thankful, as the officer has risked serious trouble for himself to do you a favor. If the item isn't illegal, then say, "no thanks, but I believe I am right, so may I please have a reciept for that." The officer may then either charge you and give you a reciept, or may check with the station first to find out if he is correct in his interpretation of the law.

I don't think this is anywhere near as widespread of a problem as people seem to think. Most of us probably just have a little 'but what if...' itch in the back of our minds, so we try and find out what to do in such a situation, and the intense interest lead some to believe that there is a big problem with people getting in trouble over pocket knives. Most LEOs I know are very laid-back when it comes to knives, as long as you act in a responsible manner, and aren't in the process of committing a major crime when they find the knife.

As for the number of posts to the effect of 'always call a knife a tool,' I'm quite disappointed. I have no problem telling an officer that a knife which I carry as a weapon is a weapon, although I would always include the term 'self-defense' in there, because that is what it's for. As I said above, I have some knives which are tools, some which are weapons, and some which are both. If something is in the latter category, then I'm not going to lie to the officer and say it's not a weapon (I mean, when I get my millenium fighter from Jerry Hossom, do you think I'm going to say 'yeah, I use that to open really big envelopes'?). Stand up for yourselves, people; there is nothing wrong with carrying a weapon, as long as you intend to use it responsibly. If you act ashamed, the vultures will strike, and we will end up having all these knives taken away and replaced with those plastic do-dads with the razor blad inside and a slit wide enough for the edge of an envelope running back to it, since that is all you really need if you do nothing but open mail all day.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
It's too bad that Arkansas isn't as liberated as Lewis's state is.
The Kimber Ultra Elite I carry is perfectly legal, but the Emerson Commander could get me sent to jail!
All the cops I know consider this the height of folly and I avoid any knife questions when pulled over this way,
LEO, Do you have any weapons in the car?
Me, Yes Officer, I'm carrying my legally concealed pistol.
LEO, May I see your Driver's license and Carry permit?
Me, Sure!
Oddly, I've found that small town cops get really upset and nervous, treating me like a possible nutcase when they find out I have a carry permit, however the State Troopers are almost always happy to find out that I have a permit and most of the time we end up chatting guns for a few minutes before they let me go.
*Haven't gotten a ticket since 1985!*
(furiously knocking on wood)
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I cut it, and I cut it, and it's STILL too short!


 
I got a copy of the law and a magazine article about the knife(Gerber Folding Applegate)and went to the assisstant DA and showed him why my knife was legal and got him to sign the property release form right there and I went down to retrieve it from the evidence property room and said

"You really thought one of you was going to get that didn't you?Maybe you should learn the law before you go out and try to enforce it!Now give me my knife before I file a complaint wiht the DA!"

and that was that(except my life is hell when I go to that particular squads patrol area due to my smart mouth.I got stopped pretty regularly for about 6 months).
 
In Canada, you can't carry a knife concealed. I've heard many different definitions on what concealed is, such as when you are trying to hide it deliberately, or when you cannot see the knife and tell that it is a knife.

If I was stopped when my knife was clipped to my front jeans pocket, would that be considered legal?
 
I think the poor man (or woman)would be too concerned with the 45 ACP on my hip or the 357 in the console to worry about the knife. But since I have a CCW permit, it tell the officer that I'm one of the good guys. Normally they won't hassle someone if they are assurred that you've been checked out by everyone from the FBI on down. But if they insist, let them take it after they sign for it and take it up with those in power.

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It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
Terrill Hoffman Knife Photography http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=243110
 
Amen to that...
Come on folks, let's get real about this. Those of you (Comrad Chang) who advocate making a huge fuss over this to the cop on the beat need a serious maturity check. These officers don't know every law, just as I am sure you don't know everything about what you do. They sometimes err on the side of caution and attempt to exercise common sense. Chances are if you treat the officer with respect, don't act like a criminal or all nervous, you will walk away with your property and perhaps not even a ticket. Always remember THE PLACE TO ARGUE IS COURT!!! Arguing on the street can only result in an escalation in which YOU WILL LOSE!! Taking a bad situation and making it worse is a clear sign of lack of: A)knowledge; B)Common Sense; C)Maturity; D)All of the Above. I opt for letter D.
I have delt with those who argue their civil rights are being violated, or that they are simply being harrassed because of who, what, when, or where they are and believe me it smacks of someone who is trying to hide something or trying to divert the officer from the real situation. As I said before if you escalate the situation, you will lose.
Sure there are bad cops, and cops of less mental sharpness than you would expect, but the place to deal with that is with their supervisor, their chief (sheriff), or their administration (county or city administrators). NOT ON THE STREET.
I have worked the street for over 17 years and can tell you that most if not all officers live at condition orange when they go to work. This is for survival. Do every one a favor try to de-escalate the situation and treat them with respect. They have a tough job, and rarely ever see anyone who is not in distress over one thing or another.
I know you get defensive about your stuff, I do too. Just remember though, its just stuff. It can be replaced, you can't.
Sorry if this has offended anyone, I read all of the posts prior to submitting this. Sorry to single you out Comrad but yours really got my dander up. Maybe YOU should take some minority sensitivity lessons, because police officers are definately a minority!

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Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney
 
J.J. Magnum joins others here in giving sound advice.

But I believe Comrade Chang's post, way back on page one of this thread, was intended as irony or satire. Perhaps it needed a "smiley" or two.

But officer! I only carry it to open letters when I pick them up at the post office!"
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
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