What would you do?

I will be writing a new article soon about knock offs and what has happened since my last article and what positive action I have taken. You can bet your ass I will rip Joy a new ass in the article :D Law suit or no law suit, the truth will ring in her ears :)

But my article will touch on many areas that the rags will never touch. Stay tuned guys :)
 
Pam, thanks for giving the dealer your/our opinion about the knockoffs and cheepos. Not much you can do, but you deserve a big hug for doing what you could,lady! I would do business with you any day, and hope to see you at a show some day. Mike, I ain't gonna hug ya, but I sure wanna shake your hand!
 
Mike >>

Good luck with your article. I found some interesting newspaper and business articles that may interest you.

geegee >>

You are absolutely correct. I'm not sure most of us would even be able to spot every knock off.

John Andrews >>

It's guys like you (and virtual hugs like that) that keep me from burning out. Thanks.

My big question is why do knife show promoters allow these guys to sell items that clearly are trademark infringments at the show in the first place?

Pam
 
When people don't aren't interested in more than what the function is, then they will buy the cheapest out there, and not just knives either. I think the Man hit the penny on the head, when he switched to selling junk. I don't buy these junk knives, like others who do, however I am fasanated with anything that's sharp, and they're obviously not.
 
Ken Onion had a long hard talk with the people who own Kershaw (Kai Cutlery in Japan) about making products in China.....the bottom line, in Austrailia and South Africa, specifically, as well as a few other place, people will NOT spend over $12 for a knife..........

that mindset is prevalent all over the world..........
that is who this man is marketing his product to.
If you want to go that course, that is a choice you will have to make


PLEASE REMEMBER-you only have one life...........live it wisely!
 
Now here's an image for ya -- a Manchurian manufactured TNT (Tactical kNife Toy) for $11.95!
 
Originally posted by Esav Benyamin
Now here's an image for ya -- a Manchurian manufactured TNT (Tactical kNife Toy) for $11.95!
Click to expand...

I hope that bug gets worked out. Does hosting work?? I really want to see a TNT rip off :D
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
Ken Onion had a long hard talk (etc).....the bottom line, in Austrailia and South Africa, specifically, as well as a few other place, people will NOT spend over $12 for a knife..........

that mindset is prevalent all over the world..........
that is who this man is marketing his product to.
If you want to go that course, that is a choice you will have to make


PLEASE REMEMBER-you only have one life...........live it wisely!
Click to expand...

Tom you may have a point, of sorts, but I think you might want to take it easy with the massive generalisation and wild over/understatement, as part of living wisely.

As an Australian who has some relevant experience, I'd say that Au's are not inclined to outlay as much as their counterparts in the US. Meaning in general, but by no means all. A knife costing any more than about US$150 would probably raise an eyebrow and so on. To suggest anything above US$12 would be a huge deal is ridiculous, however.
 
Hi Pam. I respect your position. Most of what has been mentioned is true. There is little that can be done. I can tell you that there is litle that manufacturers can do. They are difficult to stop, even after spending thousands of dollars in legal fees.

To say that manufacturers are "pricing their products too high" is unfair. I know that Spyderco works on fixed margins, so lowering prices can only be done by lowering quality, which our customers object to.

A knife that sells for $10 is usually purchased for less than $3 by the dealer. I know that we cannot make a knife that will sell for $3 unless we make it out of cow dung. If we make it out of cow dung, we really don't want to put our name on it. It is a dilema.

I've seen this discussion many times. Probably Education is the only real way to fight back, but then you have to stock both the good, bad and ugly so your education doesn't look like "sour grapes".

some thoughts to share.

sal
 
Aaaah the irony of this thread. I just bought a new Spyderco Rescue 93mm with the blue handles. Now, I work as an RN at an inner-city ER in Minneapolis and at work in comes one of the EMT's I work with regularly and he had a bad hand laceration. Turns out that his knock-off folding rescue knife failed on him and he got cut. I pulled out my new one and let him fondle it with his left hand while prepping his laceration for sutures. I also mentioned the new Assisst coming soon, and it appears he will definately buy the assisst. Anyhow, I just think that it is so true when people say that you get what you pay for, but you also pay for what you get cheap. In my co-workers case, he paid with 12 stiches.
 
Hi Sal,

You have probably had more trademark infringement battles than any other company. I understand the up-hill battle you fight.

The majority of the knife buying public has not heard of the major brands of knives. Way too many people stop in the store that have never heard of Spyderco. These guys only know knives from QVC and HSN. Their brand awareness is Frost, Jaguar, and Fury.

I guess what I'm suggesting is for companies to "knock-off" their own designs to create a product to market to these people. I'm not suggesting you make inferior knives. What I would like to see is an alternative line of knives of the most popular styles done in a less expensive handle material or steel (say 440 or ATS 35). Somewhat like Emerson did with their "Hard Wear" line. How much has changing to a higher grade steel and handle material raised the costs of each knife? Perhaps you could put a more limited warrantee on knives like these to encourage upgrading.

If more companies could produce a mid-range knife in popular stlyes, it would become less cost effective for the knock-off companies to compete. It would also create brand and style loyalty to a whole new market segment. (If you could do a line like this exclusive to independent brick and mortar stores - for at least a year - it would also allow us to compete with online stores and discount chains that price their products at 30%-40% less than suggested retail.)

As you can see, I feel strongly about NOT selling knock-off knives. I also feel strongly that something needs to be done to help the brick and mortar knife stores compete in the "never pay retail" world that the internet and large chain discount stores have helped create.

Here is a whole market segment to tap into. Surely something can be done to create a win-win situation for the buyer, seller and manufacturer.

Pam
 
There are a few knives in the $10 range that aren't knockoffs and aren't crap -- Opinel and the various Mora manufacturers come to mind. I doubt the dealers get as much markup on them as on knockoff junk, but at least they know they aren't responsible for their customers losing fingers.

Some Spyderco models are very affordably priced, but there's just no way to manufacture anything that resembles a Spyderco to sell for $10. If you use even half-decent materials and make a lockback or liner lock with enough precision to be safe, it's going to have to retail for more than that -- no matter economies of scale, no matter how much you invest in machinery, you just can't do it that cheap.

Maybe Spyderco could make a slipjoint in that price range, if they wanted to. Even if they did, would the ignorant buy it? Or would they say, "Why should I waste $10 on that when I can get this other one for only $4 and it has a locking blade too?"

I think if I were dealing at shows I would have some low-buck but usable knives at one end of the table and the price and quality would gradually go up along the table until you get to the really good and expensive stuff -- and I would try to set it up so the customers would start at the cheap end of the table. A friend of mine set up his used computer store like that. People who didn't have a computer would walk by on the street and see he had used computers for sale starting at only $75. They'd come in, sit down at the $75 computer and play with it for a while, and they'd say, "Hey, this is cool! I think I'll buy it -- but I'll look at the $100 one first." They'd look at that one and say, "Hey, this one is even cooler, and $100 isn't too much money ... but I'll look at the $150 one...." He didn't have to give them any sales pitch at all; they'd sell themselves, and the most expensive computers he had (usually in the $800-$1500 range) sold the fastest.

I think that could work with knives if you set them side by side and let the customers handle them. No knockoffs on the table; they're deceptive -- they look better than they are. No doubt some people are going to go to another table and buy a knockoff, though, no matter what you do....

Come to think of it, maybe you could put one knockoff on the table -- one that's been used a little, so the edge won't cut hot butter and the lock is broken and one of the scales has fallen off and the joint wobbles all over the place -- with a sign explaining that's what knockoffs look like after you've used one for a week.
 
Cougar,

Thats a cool idea! I like the concept of a broken knock-off beside the brand name knife....maybe with a sign that says something like "Which one would you trust when your life depended on it?" Sounds like a great print advertisement...hummm.

I know Spyderco can't make a $10 POS. I was thinking more in the line of say a police model variation that sells for $65 MSRP.

Everyone has given me some great ideas. Thanks.

Pam
 
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