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- Jul 20, 2004
- Messages
- 535
Why not a USMC KaBar Fighting Knife? The traditional fighting knife of the Corps.
-
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What would you take to Iraq.
- Thread starter fiyerbirdie
- Start date
Jim - Great story on my .44 - which came with enough rounds to both carry and do a bit of range work with. It's .45 that's tough - and last quote I heard was $100.00 a box if available. Brother - that's a lot of $$ for 50 rounds of hardball!
Yes - the Ghurkas have been contracted to provide primarily static post security since the conventional war's end and private contract security operations began. The two main providers of such manpower authorized their Ghurkas to bring over / carry their Kukris - and you see them often, particulalry at the old CPA and now temporary embassy. Have not seen one worn or carried elsewhere or by anyone else other than the Ghurkas.
Kasik sends -
Yes - the Ghurkas have been contracted to provide primarily static post security since the conventional war's end and private contract security operations began. The two main providers of such manpower authorized their Ghurkas to bring over / carry their Kukris - and you see them often, particulalry at the old CPA and now temporary embassy. Have not seen one worn or carried elsewhere or by anyone else other than the Ghurkas.
Kasik sends -
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2000
- Messages
- 2,981
Kas,
Thanks for the reply,atfirst thought it strange you carrying a .44 instead of a short 357. ,then looked at size,now understand.Oh, yeah still have all the Fight.Knives mags. time flys.man were "YOU" young! LOL!
Be safe,
Jim
Thanks for the reply,atfirst thought it strange you carrying a .44 instead of a short 357. ,then looked at size,now understand.Oh, yeah still have all the Fight.Knives mags. time flys.man were "YOU" young! LOL!
Be safe,
Jim
Jim - now have to share story with you - when I returned a good friend of mine came over and asked if I needed anything //
I asked if he had a short-barrel S&W 19 or Colt Python (.357). He said he thought so -and he'd get back with me.
A few days later he returns with the .44 - and asked if "it would do".
Well...whadda gonna say?
As it turns out it is and was fine choice - and the Marines I run into just love it
I have another friend, security ops manager, who found a S&W Highway Patrolman with 4" barrel. Beautiful piece. He was able to find rounds for it, as well.
Old Guys (OGs) just like the right revolvers, I guess.
Don't think either Jeff Cooper or Rex Applegate would disapprove of either.
Yeah, that's what the young pups I have the honor of leading say - "Dude, how OLD are you???"
I normally, and with great respect for them as they are courageous and very smart guys, offer "Old enough to have learned enough to get us all out of here alive...now get back to work!"
They are the best -
Kasik sends -
I asked if he had a short-barrel S&W 19 or Colt Python (.357). He said he thought so -and he'd get back with me.
A few days later he returns with the .44 - and asked if "it would do".
Well...whadda gonna say?
As it turns out it is and was fine choice - and the Marines I run into just love it
I have another friend, security ops manager, who found a S&W Highway Patrolman with 4" barrel. Beautiful piece. He was able to find rounds for it, as well.
Old Guys (OGs) just like the right revolvers, I guess.
Don't think either Jeff Cooper or Rex Applegate would disapprove of either.
Yeah, that's what the young pups I have the honor of leading say - "Dude, how OLD are you???"
I normally, and with great respect for them as they are courageous and very smart guys, offer "Old enough to have learned enough to get us all out of here alive...now get back to work!"
They are the best -
Kasik sends -
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2004
- Messages
- 24
They say that you don't bring a knife to a gunfight... better advice there never was. However, the toughest sum'bitch I ever met in the corps is known to say this about carrying a knife.
Never runs out of ammo, properly used it don't make any noise, and a knife is just threatening enough that it'll make someone think but not so much that it'll make em' panic and do something retarded (such as somebody might when they get a gun pointed at em')
Not really relevant I guess, just my two cents
Never runs out of ammo, properly used it don't make any noise, and a knife is just threatening enough that it'll make someone think but not so much that it'll make em' panic and do something retarded (such as somebody might when they get a gun pointed at em')
Not really relevant I guess, just my two cents
Nope, that's relevant. However one has to take into account the environment.
In Iraq, if someone is coming for you and you pull a knife you are not going to back them down - it's a fight - and it's a fight with everyone on the street once it starts 'cause WE are foreigners, invaders, crusaders, non-muslims, etc, etc, and so on.
And the Arab culture is a knife culture - you pull a blade you better plan on getting way, way down.
And the Arab culture is very much macho - honor is everything -
So, in the specific arena of PSD or convoy or static site security operations in Iraq, a knife is always handy and preferred, but not to necessarily "warn off" or deter a terrorist, an insurgent, or an angry mob...
Always bring a gun to a gun fight...and if possible bring a gun to a knife fight...but be sure preparation wise to know how and when to use both.
Kasik sends -
In Iraq, if someone is coming for you and you pull a knife you are not going to back them down - it's a fight - and it's a fight with everyone on the street once it starts 'cause WE are foreigners, invaders, crusaders, non-muslims, etc, etc, and so on.
And the Arab culture is a knife culture - you pull a blade you better plan on getting way, way down.
And the Arab culture is very much macho - honor is everything -
So, in the specific arena of PSD or convoy or static site security operations in Iraq, a knife is always handy and preferred, but not to necessarily "warn off" or deter a terrorist, an insurgent, or an angry mob...
Always bring a gun to a gun fight...and if possible bring a gun to a knife fight...but be sure preparation wise to know how and when to use both.
Kasik sends -
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2000
- Messages
- 2,981
Kas,
You get a moment,mail me.
Be safe,
Jim
You get a moment,mail me.
Be safe,
Jim
MelancholyMutt
Doggy Style
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2002
- Messages
- 3,906
Kasik said:
For a second there, you were talking about NYC...
flyerbirdie,
I am in Iraq, just west of Falluja so you get the scoop from someone that is here! This is what I carry and use: 1. Leatherman Wave(If you can you may want to get the new charge w/Bit Kit.) I plan on picking one up soon. 2. A good strong folder. I carry the Al Mar Sere, you can't break it! but a good tactical knife from one of the bigger dealers like spyderco will do you well.
Big knives will only be more weight to carry and you can't fight IED's with them. Maybe a small neck knife also to carry with you while you are doing PT. There are kidnappings going on overhere!
Good luck!
I am in Iraq, just west of Falluja so you get the scoop from someone that is here! This is what I carry and use: 1. Leatherman Wave(If you can you may want to get the new charge w/Bit Kit.) I plan on picking one up soon. 2. A good strong folder. I carry the Al Mar Sere, you can't break it! but a good tactical knife from one of the bigger dealers like spyderco will do you well.
Big knives will only be more weight to carry and you can't fight IED's with them. Maybe a small neck knife also to carry with you while you are doing PT. There are kidnappings going on overhere!
Good luck!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
- Messages
- 2,790
I would take a Howling Rat and at least 1 Victorinox. Probably the Explorer.
if you have a good belt...like a riggers belt or any 1 3/4 in web belt, you can attach multiple sheaths to it with no problem and it is very common to see a folder, multitool and flashlight all attached to the belt.
i would recommend a 3-4 " folder(microtech ums works for me), a small surefire flashlight and a leatherman wave
i would recommend a 3-4 " folder(microtech ums works for me), a small surefire flashlight and a leatherman wave
Interesting discussion but back to the main question, here's my two cents FlyBirdie.
I have deployed to the desert many times myself, not as a ground soldier (USAF pilot) but I have been in tent conditions for months on end, patrolled with the security forces several times, experienced the worst the desert weather there is, and have seen all kinds of different approaches to gear in the desert and elsewhere throughout the world. That coupled with my personal combat survival kit preps and backpacking/tactical shooting/survival oriented excursions I recommend the following overall advice, then specific recommendations:
Deployment Blade Considerations
1) Weight is paramount: Scrutinize every ounce. Does it's utility, life-saving capability in that situation make it worth carrying? If not leave it.
2) What's your base of operations?: This is critical. When backpacking your BO is your pack. Remember #1. That limits you to one maybe two blades. A quonset hut, fixed base tent, Hummer, or Bradley will give you more options and a place to store stuff. But if you're constantly breaking camp, told to fit everything in one duffle, and humpin' all your gear, your knife selection will be limited. Also consider possible hump distances in the equation.
3) Different blades for different missions: Ideally you should have a selection of tactical blades to fit different situations and your job. If your likelihood of encountering the enemy is high, then your blades should be suited mostly for killing. If it's low, the utility side (food prep, opening boxes, cutting wood, etc) of the scale should win. And having a good selection is more affordable than ever; there are many great blades out there that $200 could have you WELL on your way (see recs below).
4) Having a backup is good: If you are in a combat scenario having a backup I think is mandatory. There's a lot of what ifs out there and a lot of scenarios where a blade maybe you're only weapon left. Yes a pistol backup is great but is it allowable in your MOS and again there's the weight. A 9mm at minimum will weigh you down at least 26 ounces loaded (exactly for the Glock 26 w/ ten rounds)... that's 1 lb 10 ounces... that's 3 ounces more than a Becker BK9! A Cold Steel Mini Tac neck/web gear knife weighs 3.7 oz and could save the day. Can you afford not to carry such a blade? Always have a backup especially when it's almost w/o weight penalty.
Specific FIXED blade recommendations and justifications:
Cold Steel Mini Tac neck knife: 3.7 oz, $30, extremely sharp, LIGHT, nice thin blade, good kydex sheath, can be lashed onto webgear or neck carried, hold to appreciate!
Cold Steel Safekeeper dagger: 5.2 oz, $30, push variety, check on Geneva legality (w/ all dbl edge knives) but it's a great backup, secure hold, Kydex ('Securex') sheath, light, great slasher/stabber.
Cold Steel Kobun Tanto 420 SS: 6.8 oz, $36, medium quality steel but easily sharpened, super light full size knife, thin blade really cuts!, great penetrator. Note: sheath needed hand stitching for more retention though.
Cold Steel Peace Keeper II SS: 8.0 oz, $42, med. quality steel, good hold with Kraton grip (like all my CS knives), double edged, med. utility, good compact fighter.
BenchMade Nimravus 140 BT with Santoprene sheath; 8.9 oz, $100, great steel (154 CM), razor sharp, light, tough, subdued, secure sheath, great utility and defensive ability, good food prep and slicing knife too.
SOG SEAL Pup: 9.5 oz, about $55-60, NOT recommended, cutting surface is limited.. almost first 1" of the blade has no edge coming out of the handle; serrations near impossible to sharpen and prevent good utility slicing ability, small grip.
S&W Search & Rescue (440 SS); 12.8 oz, $24!, surprising choice!, way affordable, good steel, hammer pommel, ok sheath, rubber grip, subdued, cheesy velcro retention you can fix. You can trash or lose it at this price! Buy two!
SOG Government Agent: 12.3 oz, $70, Great choice., outstanding grip and balance, hammer pommel at no extra weight, blade has equality utility and fighting abilities, good steel (not great though), light for abilities, subdued, great Kydex sheath, affordable. Note: I had to carefully radius the knife guard with a fine file to make extraction smoother.
I would not recommend the SEAL Pup for the above reasons... and I have one too. Best all around awards in my book go to the Nimravus 140 BT and the SOG Government Agent with the Nimravus winning the weight contest. Any of the CS backup blades would serve you well too. The aforementioned advice on folding tactical knives and SAKs is good too. I would agree a folder is generally more used and useful in almost all facets of your activities but they aren't as defensive. That's a whole 'nother post.
I go for utility and value in my knife selections and generally discount hype, prejudice (like against CS), and 'steel elitism.' I go where the best blades are for the money for my intended uses. I know there's better blades but for a lot more $$ and most of the above are great, durable knives. I bought most of them at Knivesplus.com or New Graham Knives ... both have great prices but Knivesplus selection is somewhat better. The blades shown below and the 'advice' I give are derived from my own research and preparations for same thing you're going to do... deploy for war. And I have and have used each one. These blades are all in my own deployment arsenal. Hope all this helps.
PS: The following knives, while excellent, I feel are generally too big and heavy for on-foot patrolling. Additionally the necessity for really large, heavy blades in the desert is questionable... you ain't going to be building shelters from the local forests. The are listed by way of weight comparison.
KaBar Marine Combat 15.5 oz
Cold Steel Peace Keeper I SS 11.7 oz (rel. light but too big for narrow use)
SOG SEAL 2000 Full Size 16.5 oz
KaBar New Generation 17.5 oz
Becker Survival BK7 17.7 oz
S&W HRT Combat 18.5 oz
Becker Survival BK9 23.3 oz
Affordable Deployment Knives
I have deployed to the desert many times myself, not as a ground soldier (USAF pilot) but I have been in tent conditions for months on end, patrolled with the security forces several times, experienced the worst the desert weather there is, and have seen all kinds of different approaches to gear in the desert and elsewhere throughout the world. That coupled with my personal combat survival kit preps and backpacking/tactical shooting/survival oriented excursions I recommend the following overall advice, then specific recommendations:
Deployment Blade Considerations
1) Weight is paramount: Scrutinize every ounce. Does it's utility, life-saving capability in that situation make it worth carrying? If not leave it.
2) What's your base of operations?: This is critical. When backpacking your BO is your pack. Remember #1. That limits you to one maybe two blades. A quonset hut, fixed base tent, Hummer, or Bradley will give you more options and a place to store stuff. But if you're constantly breaking camp, told to fit everything in one duffle, and humpin' all your gear, your knife selection will be limited. Also consider possible hump distances in the equation.
3) Different blades for different missions: Ideally you should have a selection of tactical blades to fit different situations and your job. If your likelihood of encountering the enemy is high, then your blades should be suited mostly for killing. If it's low, the utility side (food prep, opening boxes, cutting wood, etc) of the scale should win. And having a good selection is more affordable than ever; there are many great blades out there that $200 could have you WELL on your way (see recs below).
4) Having a backup is good: If you are in a combat scenario having a backup I think is mandatory. There's a lot of what ifs out there and a lot of scenarios where a blade maybe you're only weapon left. Yes a pistol backup is great but is it allowable in your MOS and again there's the weight. A 9mm at minimum will weigh you down at least 26 ounces loaded (exactly for the Glock 26 w/ ten rounds)... that's 1 lb 10 ounces... that's 3 ounces more than a Becker BK9! A Cold Steel Mini Tac neck/web gear knife weighs 3.7 oz and could save the day. Can you afford not to carry such a blade? Always have a backup especially when it's almost w/o weight penalty.
Specific FIXED blade recommendations and justifications:
Cold Steel Mini Tac neck knife: 3.7 oz, $30, extremely sharp, LIGHT, nice thin blade, good kydex sheath, can be lashed onto webgear or neck carried, hold to appreciate!
Cold Steel Safekeeper dagger: 5.2 oz, $30, push variety, check on Geneva legality (w/ all dbl edge knives) but it's a great backup, secure hold, Kydex ('Securex') sheath, light, great slasher/stabber.
Cold Steel Kobun Tanto 420 SS: 6.8 oz, $36, medium quality steel but easily sharpened, super light full size knife, thin blade really cuts!, great penetrator. Note: sheath needed hand stitching for more retention though.
Cold Steel Peace Keeper II SS: 8.0 oz, $42, med. quality steel, good hold with Kraton grip (like all my CS knives), double edged, med. utility, good compact fighter.
BenchMade Nimravus 140 BT with Santoprene sheath; 8.9 oz, $100, great steel (154 CM), razor sharp, light, tough, subdued, secure sheath, great utility and defensive ability, good food prep and slicing knife too.
SOG SEAL Pup: 9.5 oz, about $55-60, NOT recommended, cutting surface is limited.. almost first 1" of the blade has no edge coming out of the handle; serrations near impossible to sharpen and prevent good utility slicing ability, small grip.
S&W Search & Rescue (440 SS); 12.8 oz, $24!, surprising choice!, way affordable, good steel, hammer pommel, ok sheath, rubber grip, subdued, cheesy velcro retention you can fix. You can trash or lose it at this price! Buy two!
SOG Government Agent: 12.3 oz, $70, Great choice., outstanding grip and balance, hammer pommel at no extra weight, blade has equality utility and fighting abilities, good steel (not great though), light for abilities, subdued, great Kydex sheath, affordable. Note: I had to carefully radius the knife guard with a fine file to make extraction smoother.
I would not recommend the SEAL Pup for the above reasons... and I have one too. Best all around awards in my book go to the Nimravus 140 BT and the SOG Government Agent with the Nimravus winning the weight contest. Any of the CS backup blades would serve you well too. The aforementioned advice on folding tactical knives and SAKs is good too. I would agree a folder is generally more used and useful in almost all facets of your activities but they aren't as defensive. That's a whole 'nother post.
I go for utility and value in my knife selections and generally discount hype, prejudice (like against CS), and 'steel elitism.' I go where the best blades are for the money for my intended uses. I know there's better blades but for a lot more $$ and most of the above are great, durable knives. I bought most of them at Knivesplus.com or New Graham Knives ... both have great prices but Knivesplus selection is somewhat better. The blades shown below and the 'advice' I give are derived from my own research and preparations for same thing you're going to do... deploy for war. And I have and have used each one. These blades are all in my own deployment arsenal. Hope all this helps.
PS: The following knives, while excellent, I feel are generally too big and heavy for on-foot patrolling. Additionally the necessity for really large, heavy blades in the desert is questionable... you ain't going to be building shelters from the local forests. The are listed by way of weight comparison.
KaBar Marine Combat 15.5 oz
Cold Steel Peace Keeper I SS 11.7 oz (rel. light but too big for narrow use)
SOG SEAL 2000 Full Size 16.5 oz
KaBar New Generation 17.5 oz
Becker Survival BK7 17.7 oz
S&W HRT Combat 18.5 oz
Becker Survival BK9 23.3 oz
Okay - got my Maxpedition Falcon and Fatboy Versipak yesterday -
Called Tim at MAX and thanked him for swift delivery
Initial observations -
Compact - glad I did not get Pigmy Falcon 'cause the full size is just right for my needs and the Pigmy would have been too small! Indeed a day pack that one - the full size Falcon is not a 3-day assault pack, but it is more than enough for careful, thoughtful packing of those things you need for perhaps an emergency gun and run kit, or 48-hour travel bag.
Well designed - no objections so far. Tight sewing, straps and buckles all work as intended, zippers field durable from first impression, pockets and such well considered and placed - nice little rig.
Comfort - nice // lines up down the spine and should ride comfortably atop uncluttered back of TT plate carrier discussed elsewhere. Low profile, "cute" if you will. Shoulder straps are nice - waist belt is okay - most are "okay" anyhow // it'll do if ever used.
Fatboy Versipak -
Awesome - just awesome. Nice combo for travel - design is sweet - just what you need and where you need it. Low profile / looks "right" / practical in every respect - well sewn / easy access all pockets and such. Very kool.
More to follow from the sandbox.
Kasik sends -
Called Tim at MAX and thanked him for swift delivery
Initial observations -
Compact - glad I did not get Pigmy Falcon 'cause the full size is just right for my needs and the Pigmy would have been too small! Indeed a day pack that one - the full size Falcon is not a 3-day assault pack, but it is more than enough for careful, thoughtful packing of those things you need for perhaps an emergency gun and run kit, or 48-hour travel bag.
Well designed - no objections so far. Tight sewing, straps and buckles all work as intended, zippers field durable from first impression, pockets and such well considered and placed - nice little rig.
Comfort - nice // lines up down the spine and should ride comfortably atop uncluttered back of TT plate carrier discussed elsewhere. Low profile, "cute" if you will. Shoulder straps are nice - waist belt is okay - most are "okay" anyhow // it'll do if ever used.
Fatboy Versipak -
Awesome - just awesome. Nice combo for travel - design is sweet - just what you need and where you need it. Low profile / looks "right" / practical in every respect - well sewn / easy access all pockets and such. Very kool.
More to follow from the sandbox.
Kasik sends -
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2001
- Messages
- 105
Fallkniven S-1. You won't break it, it's a good size size for general use, and if you somehow lose it, it won't break your heart like a fancy custom or otherwise expensive knife would. Also a multi-tool.
Have to comment on the Ontario USMC bayonet since got mine from Andy Prisco a few days ago - the Marines in BAG I've taked with love it - and I can see why // truly excellent combat knife / bayonet - am super impressed // if you're going over or can have one sent - go for it // it's a winner.
Kasik sends -
Kasik sends -
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2004
- Messages
- 717
When I was a Marine a couple decades ago the most useful knife I carried was a Buck 110. So I recommend a good quality folder. I can see where a multitool would be very handy also. We didn't have them back then but if we did I would have had one. I rarely ever used my Ka-Bar for anything but it was nice to know I had it with me in Lebanon. I understand the new bayonets are fine so you probably won't need a big ol' Ka-Bar. Our bayonets back then were crap. They made us carry them anyway. Extra weight. And, as several others here have mentioned, you want to be careful not to load yourself down with too much weight. Even if you spend a lot of time in something with a motor there will be times you are on foot. I did keep a boot knife hidden on me when I was in Lebanon.
A couple others have said this but I will repeat it. Don't take any knives to boot camp. They will be confiscated.
Semper Fidelis
A couple others have said this but I will repeat it. Don't take any knives to boot camp. They will be confiscated.
Semper Fidelis
- Joined
- May 21, 2000
- Messages
- 6,277
I would probably carry the following:
A Cold Steel SRK or a Swamp Rat
An SAK
A Gerber Multitool
A Spyderco Military
An SE Spyderco Endura
A Cold Steel SRK or a Swamp Rat
An SAK
A Gerber Multitool
A Spyderco Military
An SE Spyderco Endura