What you think is the bare minimum 4 a kit

Jeff-
Well, as one who used to fight those "signal" fires, I can tell you that it sure intensifies the hunt!;)
-carl
 
OK, now I am going to start a fight...
After rereading this thread, I find folks generally fall into one of two camps: Those with whom I'd venture afield and those I'd avoid. What leads me to that obnoxious conclusion is a belief that some are just throwing out ad-hoc lists they've never tried. Anyone else feel that way or am I just having a bad day?
-carl
 
Years ago, the U.S. Army scammed Abraham Maslow's "Higherarchy of Human Needs" and applied it to military survival. In brief;
Physiologic needs are most important- Water, protection from temperature and weather extremes, basic caloric intake, protection from imminent injury,etc..
Safety needs are next, with shelter, further protection from temperature or climatic extremes, clothing, potable water, food beyond the basics of calories in your mouth.
On and on, the higherarchy of needs goes, to belonging, esteem and finally self actualization, all of which are less of a concern in the context of short term civilian survival (As opposed to military situations such as surviving a POW situation, or other long term survival scenario.
Now, why is this of relevance in a "Minimums" thread? Well, it in part can be used to hone down a kit list to the minimums without neglecting needed items. In addition to the higherarchy and it's connection to minimum equipment for whatever survival situation you may find yourself in, a key element in military survival training is to get OUT of the situation as soon as possible- Hopping/ limping or crawling on a broken ankle (If at all possible) beats killing an hour digging out or building a shelter if it's starting to snow/ Drinking mud puddle water with marmot turds in it will keep you hydrated long enough to get to help, but you'll pay for it later :eek:/ Cut on the finger? wrap it with tape and drive on. Lay your knee or scalp open for 6" and band aids/ small gauze pads are useless, it'll take a T shirt or more to stop the mess (Kerlix & Ace wrap are still best basic trauma tools) then start limping, it ain't gonna get better with time.
So, the focus I offer when choosing what to carry is obviously up to personal interpretation and situation driven but it's a reasonable tool in the decision making process.
PS- Many commercially available "Survival" kits are overpriced and too generalized at best. Don't go farther into the woods/ desert alone than your wits can carry you. Sort of like a 2WD truck vs. 4WD truck, the 4WD will just get stuck farther from help..
 
carl before you finalize your 2 camps.

One thing to keep in mind, there was never a scenario set. So that means everyone who posted has their own scenario in their mind.

so for instance my leatherman + ferro rod, is not my ideal choice if I were to have a choice. As I know from experience you sometimes don't get a choice.

so this whole thread comes down to 2 questions "are we planning an excursion into wilderness for indefinite period of time?" or "what is the barest minimum you might have on your person during an unplanned short term survival situation?" My kits are formed for the latter.
 
I'm far from being an expert on such topic but I have found that my little kit works very well for me in my environment and particularly in urban areas. Like stated earlier, I think you should evaluate your needs and what your environment is. Here's mine:
fc8a27c1.jpg
 
Chris-
Point made, point taken. I guess I've spent too much time abused by that place where the rubber meets the road. That gets me into playing scenarios with other folks' stuff. So! Your point about the gear being offered is offered for THEIR scenario- not mine- is especially astute (though apparently not obvious to me :footinmou ).
-carl
 
Thanks Carl,

I can understand your position, If I were thinking of a long term survival situation and some guy says "All I need is my leatherman and a ferro rod!", I would think, This guy is an idiot and get as far as possible from him. unless of course he is that kind of good but so few are and I am deffinitely not that good.

my long term kit is in the 30 lbs range, and I don't think I can get it down for a while till I build up my skill level.


but for around town where I am not too far from home, something crazy happens and I am stranded for a few days in Mississippi, I can make it alright with just that and possibly my mini-altoids.

You got to be Thankful for civil discussion on the internet.

Thanks

chris
 
Chris-
Agreed- civil discussion must be the rule. Few learn anything from arguments. I really did not want to start anything, buy wondered if folks were just making entries for entry sake or thinking about the subject and responding thoughtfully. I really am here to see other perspectives.

As for small kits- I've been out with nothing (not by choice) and found that the few odds and ends that came to hand were of significant value- so I cannot discount any kit, however small. That said, my kit comes close to 30 pounds and is a kit within a kit within a kit. The core is always with me if I'm dressed. The second and third "layers" are pressed into service with distance. The further I go (or might go) the more comes with me. As an example, if I drive anywhere it all comes. If I walk anywhere, the middle layer comes along with the core.

It takes substantial planning and running all sorts of scenarios to come up with exactly what goes into what layer. What? Me anal-retentive? :D Anyway, that is where I was coming from when I started sorting folks into camps. Truth is, I don't think anyone an idiot- I just wonder who is part of the problem as opposed to being part of the solution. Of course I tend to favor those who are better prepared.
-carl
 
How are we going to know when we may require our kit?

The way I see it is that the further we may venture from help, the larger our survival kit requirements may become. The idea of having larger and more intensive kits dependant on the following conditions, I think is good:

- the area being travelled to
- the time spent there
- how we are travelling
- what we will be doing there

There are probably more elements but thats all I can think of for now.

This leads me to the minimum kit. The kit we may be carrying or have available nearly all the time. A key element appears to be "time". That is, how long we are willing to go without the elements in the kit to acheive our goal. The element may be a tool, first aid, protection, food/water or just something to make us comfortable.

So what are essential elements? I guess we all have our own ideas for this.
Where will we be when we need our kit? This leads us to the contents of the kit.
 
I've never really had a "kit". There's always been various stuff I'd take along whenever I'm going out to the fields or something. I grew up on a 1500 acre farm, which means spending 130 hours a week in the great outdoors. Now I work at a farm service company, and for the past 2 years spend about that much time riding on a 4-wheeler taking soil samples for farmers in the spring and fall. On the farm, I'd always bring plenty of water- I'd often drink over a gallon a day. I had to have a sturdy knife of some kind, and I never left home without my rifle and plenty of ammo, except a few times when I only had a pistol. Of course I'd also bring a whole pile of tools for the equipment I was operating- a pliers was bare minimum EDC. I didn't bother with little first aid stuff like band-aids and aspirin. Little wounds are simply ignored. They don't get any field treatment until stiches are required, and even then, I've just sewn myself up a few times. Usually, in the agriculture business, there is no middle ground. Either you get a small wound which is ignored, or you get an arm ripped off your body, or get wrapped around a PTO shaft like a rag doll, or you get instantly chopped into tiny pieces, or you're crushed under 40 Tons of steel, or you're pulled into a running machine, or you fall off a 60 foot tall silo, etc., etc. Did you know that more farmers are killed on the job than cops and firemen combined? (perhaps with the exception of Sept. 11) Thus a cell phone or means to summon an ambulance is far more important than a band-aid. Adequate protection from the sun is also required in the summer, so I wore a big hat& sunglasses. I'd wear either a light long sleeved shirt, or if I got caught with short sleeves, I'd just cover my arms with mud, which kept them cooler anyway. I cannot wear long pants or my legs will become covered with blisters. So I wore knee length shorts or cut off jeans. This provided enough ventilation for my legs, and protected them from the sun while sitting down on a tractor seat.

Now my "kit" has changed a bit. In addition to the stuff I need for my job, I bring the water and food, cell phone, flashlight, and my great big Bowie knife. Unfortunately, the rifle is against company policy, as well as Illinois law since I am no longer on my own property. I can get away with the Bowie though, since I often used it to clear the way for the 4-wheeler. I also almost had to use it on a few mean dogs, and kept it in my hand when I had to sleep in the truck- just in case. I will spare you most of the details about proper clothing, but will say it was very important. Weather conditions are very magnified when driving 30 mph on a 4-wheeler all day. It also has to be very adaptable since southern Illinois is known for drastic weather swings. Early morning and night are often like entirely different seasons from midday.

Now, if we talk about surviving a night in the "wilderness", here in southern Illinois, in most places you can't look around at night without seeing at least two dozen lights (pole lights at houses) in every direction. Thus in most cases I'd just want something that could signal for help from the neighbors, communication, such as a cell phone or radio, or whatever I'd need to help me limp that far. If we're talking strictly about wilderness, then I'd have to either go south to the Shawnee Forest area, or the nearby Kaskaskia River Corridor. In the Shawnee, my biggest concern would be falling off a cliff, or sliding down those big rock formations, and I'm not sure what to do about that. I guess pray my cell phone works. Otherwise, fire could make the night more enjoyable, and something to eat. I'd need my big Bowie knife to make any tools I needed from wood, and make shelter. I could make traps, spears, a digging stick (why does everyone want to dig with their knife? Use a stick!)for roots to make fishing line and find worms, and of course a bow and arrows for extended stays. Actually, I'd probably make a quick compound bow lashed together with string (Guess I'd need to bring good string, then) to last me until I could carve out a decent self bow. (though the compound bows are quite effective in their own right) I'd also bring a spool of thread for a thousand things, or just tear some from my shirt. And of course I'd memorize a map beforehand and bring a compass. In our woods in the Kaskaskia corridor, I'd bring most of the same stuff, and add the gun back into the package. It makes the whole food dilemma so much easier, and may possibly be used to signal for help. I guess I should start carrying some of my Sodium Metabisulfite (I have plenty of the stuff for making wine) for purifying water, and maybe some zip lock bags to hold water. My dad once almost got lost in our woods during deer season. He had to walk in about a mile, and then it started to snow. He said "When everything's white, one tree looks just like another." The clouds covered the sun, so maybe a compass could have helped him find his direction again.
So let's see...
I guess my "kit" would be a cell phone, rifle & ammo, big knife, smaller knife& sharpener, string, water and/or water purifying agents and containers, some food, (the gun and knife are all I need to get meat, and I know the plants) adequate clothing, perhaps a compass, something to make fire, and... OH! Almost forgot! TOILET PAPER!
 
possum, excellent post. you know your terrain and what you need through experience.

one question; Do you love bowies? I would think some other more bush clearing knives might be better suited to your tasks!
 
Originally posted by chrisaloia
possum, excellent post. you know your terrain and what you need through experience.

one question; Do you love bowies? I would think some other more bush clearing knives might be better suited to your tasks!

Gosh, thanks for the compliment. I honestly don't have much experience "roughing it", but have done enough similar stuff just for fun that I'm sure I'd have no problem.

Yeah, I am rather partial to Bowies. :D But I really do believe it's the best compromise for my situation. Keep in mind I'm not talking about a little "hunter bowie"; my old Bowie was 21 inches long, and my new one, which should be finished within a month, will be 24" long. They combine the reach and speed of a machette with the chopping power of a good sized hatchet. Thus it's perfectly suited to clearing small brush and chopping small trees. An axe may be better for serious chopping, but first of all, I wouldn't carry a full sized axe around, but the Bowie carries nicely in my belt. Second, why would I need to chop down a 200 year old white oak anyway? Shelter is easier made from small saplings, and there's plenty of deadfalls in the woods to build a fire. You don't need to waste energy chopping firewood into neat 2 foot lengths. Just start the fire on one end of the log and keep pushing it in as it burns. And, if I do plan to do some serious woodcutting, I just put some gas in one of our 7 chainsaws and go to town. :)
 
I can relate to Possum's post well- lots of time outside, alone, and in situations where 60 bandaids and some triple antibiotic ointment don't mean much. There is one difference: when I'm out and the sun goes down there are no lights showing habitation or help. That, I suppose, accounts for my "kit" having grown to a size where if I get stuck out, I can make do for quite a while.

So I guess I agree with Chris as well. Distance plays a large role in determining Kit contents. I have added one other consideration: I do not assume civilization, as we know it, will be any type of a solution to my having to survive. Since the word "distance" implies "from civilization (as we know it)", my kit is constructed to account for the possibility that I may be prevented (by good sense) from returning to civilization.

Some will see that as a bit over the top. That is fine. I do not.
-carl
 
Jeff, that was a good one! :D :D

The way things have been in Colorado the last couple of years, Jeff's is the best plan I've heard of yet for immediate recognition...
 
I found your post great reading and appropriate for farm survival involving short periods of time and relatively short distances to help.
I am very interested in the use of archery for survival and would very much like you to give me some leads on your following quote :
Actually, I'd probably make a quick compound bow lashed together with string
I am familiar with single stave bow construction and even splicing billets together. Also I am confident in building a crude takedown bow although I haven't tried yet. Can you please expand on your construction of a compound bow?
 
Originally posted by dartanyon
I found your post great reading and appropriate for farm survival involving short periods of time and relatively short distances to help.
I am very interested in the use of archery for survival and would very much like you to give me some leads on your following quote :

I am familiar with single stave bow construction and even splicing billets together. Also I am confident in building a crude takedown bow although I haven't tried yet. Can you please expand on your construction of a compound bow?

A picture would explain everything here, but I'll try. Well, basically I meant taking a bunch of smaller sticks of appropriate wood and lashing them together, to create a very quick but fairly serviceable makeshift bow. In the Shawnee forest I'd use the plentiful bamboo reeds, and around here I'd seek out osage orange, or maybe settle for oak or hickory sticks. Find a whole bunch of straight, small limbs or saplings, preferably smaller than your pinkie finger, and each stick should be around 60-75% the length of the finished bow. I.E., if you want a finished bow 3 feet long, each stick should be around 2 feet long. You're going to bundle them together with string or vines/roots. Take half of the sticks for the upper limb of the bow, and half for the bottom limb, and interlay them all so the fatter ends of each limb overlap (or rather stick into eachother) at the grip for 1/3 to 1/2 the bow's length. How much overlap will depend entirely on how much taper each stick has, and wood type. Each stick should be oriented so the skinny end is toward the tip of each limb of the bow. The natural taper of each stick combined make up the taper of the bow limbs. You can adjust the "taper" of the bow limbs by simply overlapping the two limbs more or less, or by overlapping individual sticks more or less until both bow limbs flex equally and evenly. If you need more strength at the wrist for instance, use a couple shorter sticks to reinforce that region. If you've ever seen the movie "Predator" with Arnold Schwartzenneggar, he uses such a bow in the end to try to kill the alien.

When I was a kid, I made several of these, and my miniature ones were a big hit with everyone who saw them. I made mini bows about 16 inches long from bamboo shishkabob skewers and used more skewers for arrows. (fletched with turkey feathers and steel broadheads) It could shoot those little arrows well over 80 yards. Friends' parents thought it was cute, but quickly became concerned when they saw those steel broadheads buried 1/2" deep into trees. They were quite capable of killing rabbits and birds, etc. If I came across a big patch of bamboo in Shawnee, I could have a full sized version done in probably 20 minutes. (provided I remembered to bring plenty of good string) At very least it would be quite capable of taking small game until something more serviceable could be carved to go after deer. I'd use more bamboo to quickly make some arrows. Split the skinny end and use a folded cattail leaf for fletching, or if I could find feathers from geese around a pond or something, they can be simply tied onto the rear of the shaft whole, and will still work pretty well. In the woods around here, finding the right sized sticks and straight enough sticks for arrows would be the most time consuming part.
 
the possum,


Thanks for your enlightening reply but I was refering to the type of compound bow that has concentric wheels at either end of the limbs to allow string force relief.
The type of bow you refer to is new to me but I am keen to learn, thanks. Do you know of the origin of this type of manufacture being the limbs made of multiple components? I imagine it is of Mayan/Aztec origin. Perhaps even Egyptian?
 
Carl,

I found your kit concise and well prepared/thought out. I would definitely kick myself if I ever left such a kit behind.
 
Originally posted by dartanyon
the possum,


Thanks for your enlightening reply but I was refering to the type of compound bow that has concentric wheels at either end of the limbs to allow string force relief.
The type of bow you refer to is new to me but I am keen to learn, thanks. Do you know of the origin of this type of manufacture being the limbs made of multiple components? I imagine it is of Mayan/Aztec origin. Perhaps even Egyptian?

Dartanyon
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I really don't know the name of this kind of bow; I just called it compound since it is made from many pieces, rather than a self bow carved from one piece. The eccentric wheels would be nice for a reduced let off, but I'm not sure how practical such a bow would be to make quickly in the wild. I don't know the origin of this bow, but I suspect many, many cultures accross the world used them in some form. I figured it out myself when I was only about 8 years old, so surely there are plenty of other people who have been much smarter than me.
 
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