What's a good type of steel to use for my knife?

No matter how many times you ask, the answer will not change. It is only good for practice or a wall hanger.
Click to expand...
Listen to the man. This same topic has been brought up several times with always the same outcome. Good practice but nothing else.
 
Seriously, don't try to skimp out on blade steel.
Get either 1084 or 01 from Aldo, and quit with the mild steel business.

You can get a 48" bar of 1/8 thick, 2" wide steel for about 20 bucks.
That's like 5 dollars per knife.
 
I'm going to go against the popular opinion here. If you already have some Lowes or Home Depot steel, you can make a knife out of it. Just be warned that it will not hold an edge compared to hardened steel. It will also be difficult to sharpen, because it's so soft you'll just push the steel around instead of wearing it off on a stone. It can be done, but just barely, and you need to be pretty good at sharpening.

However, for a lot of cutting tasks, you will still have a servicable blade. You can still cut vegetables, though contact with the cutting board will dull the knife quickly. You can trim thread, open letters, cut cardboard, though again, edge retention will be low. You might even be able to whittle on soft, green sticks, but maybe not. If you want to do any skinning or such, you could try, but keep another knife handy. Hammered copper was used for knives before steel. Soft steel will work, but not compared to modern cutlery steels.
 
Ok, thanks everyone. I took some of the welding steel and started a knife, just as practice, already cutting the larger chunks of steel around the design with a hacksaw is proving to be a very tough effort.
 
Gamgades456 said:
That is what I got, I bought a 1/8x2x4ft piece of welding steel, would that be somewhat fine to use?
Click to expand...


Not just no, but in no way, shape, or form will that steel ever make, in any way, a usable knife. Even as a decoration, it will rust if someone breathes on it wrong.

Go ahead and practice with it. Practice welding with it... go weld it to a stop sign. But please do not try to make a knife out of it that you plan on using or giving to anyone else.

You seem to be pretty hell-bent on using it. So my advice; practice grinding with it, then throw it away.

In case it has not been made clear, that steel is no better for making a knife than a soda can that has been melted down into a bar. it just simply will not work.

On the other hand, you could make some throwing knives out of it, and throw them into the trash!

I'm having a little fun with you, but really, just get on any of the distributor websites and buy a chunk of usable steel that starts with the number 10.

Good luck
 
Thats what I did when I had some mild steel laying around and wanted to see if I could grind a knife blade......grind it, bend it in half then throw it away. Then got some knife steel. Soft knife shaped objects even find there way to Ebay....I bought one once....Had a makers etch on it even. James
 
All the above is good advise to not use mild steel. (BTW, Welding steel is just a common sales name for mild steel...same thing)

But, guys, I figure this is a 15-16 year old who is going to do what he wants, not what he is advised to do.
It is just a fact of youth and inexperience that some teens will not apply the same amount of determination into doing it the RIGHT was as they will in doing it THEIR way.

If he had approached this in a learning attitude, he would already have been given good steel, handle material, and lots of help from some of the great guys in Shop Talk who want to help new makers learn it right. I know there are about a dozen makers near Savannah that would help.
 
This may help you.

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V26

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied not all are expired.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then use wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
If it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/742638-TUTORIAL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging - no specific knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of video reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/246861-darrin-sanders


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench. Motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.

Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Simplest, and cheapest are hardly ever the same, but:
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive, no belts and a VFD for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
Or you may find them cheaper at other retailers, but watch shipping.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html
VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.


The 1.5 HP combination is the most common setup, as reported by Rob Frink in some thread somewhere
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reported being able to run a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html



Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Ggoogle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"

The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V26 July 24, 2012
Trimmed to fit the 1,500 character limit and simplify links.

Countavatar.jpg
 
Last edited:
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/1084/

Order some 1084 from Aldo, 1/8" (.125) thick by 1.5" wide.

You can by 4 feet for about 20 bucks shipped, and any knife maker with a heat treating oven or forge will be able to heat treat it for you. Most would probably do it for 5 or 10 bucks, if not for free. When you're done, you should have a useable blade that will hold and edge and cut with the best of them, assuming you come out with something that half way resembles a knife.
 
bladsmth said:
All the above is good advise to not use mild steel. (BTW, Welding steel is just a common sales name for mild steel...same thing)

But, guys, I figure this is a 15-16 year old who is going to do what he wants, not what he is advised to do.
It is just a fact of youth and inexperience that some teens will not apply the same amount of determination into doing it the RIGHT was as they will in doing it THEIR way.

If he had approached this in a learning attitude, he would already have been given good steel, handle material, and lots of help from some of the great guys in Shop Talk who want to help new makers learn it right. I know there are about a dozen makers near Savannah that would help.
Click to expand...

That bottle opener I posted was just for sodas. :p :D
 
ಠ_ಠ
Guys first of al, I'm 13... I know young, but I'm interested, and I already said, I'm not planning on making a usable knife, I'm just basically making an outline of a knife, and practice on it to get my cutting and designing down. I'm not giving it to anyone either, I'm just going to cut it out, do some mild filing as practice, and chuck it in a box to look back on.
 
Age is no excuse;) I'm 14 and I use 1095, and it works just fine :p

You will work a lot harder on a knife your going to use, if it's just practice you will skip steps and rush because it is just practice. These guys know what they are talking about!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top