Whats involved with staying alive below +40 degrees?

Well...40 above zero isn't really a big deal. I'd suggest some military type polypropolene long underwear and some good wool socks from Fox River or Smartwool. Wool in general is very good because it also insulates when wet. You're right about wind though, and may want a light windbreaker over the top, this will also prevent the wool from being snagged and torn up from brush etc. Cabela's has some very nice "Windshear" wool sweaters with a windproof liner already in them. I don't have one yet, but I'm surre they are very nice.

Now for -40 that's another whole story altogether! That requires stuff from people like Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering.
 
Cool!

I'll have to see if I get Fit-TV thanks for the heads up...

Are there any long underwears that arent "Scratcy" I had a poly-propelean square mesh looking pair, that were definetly nasty when it comes to feel!

Great point SDDLUP... To build on what has already been said, what is the next "benchmark" that requires different layering? 0 F?

:D

I noticed filson has come up... Is waxed cotton the same as regular cotton in that it absorbs moisture? I'm thinking about getting some wool flannels for some cooler weather wear (Instead of my t-shirt...)
 
Cabela's specials section often has texturized nylon trousers on sale. The are quet, tough, and fairly wind resistant - certainly more abrasion-resistant and wind resistant than even wool.

Military-surplus heavy wool trousers have been showing up for years - German and Swedish lately.

I prefer the nylon over an insulation layer like polyester fleece.
 
The next "step" would probably be anything in the singe digits. Gloves or mittens, a good wool hat or balavlava, and another layer up top. Wool socks will still work but you will probably want an insulated boot. All these things depend on what you will be doing and what kind of circulation you have (how your body deals with the cold). That's why layering is so important, you can remove layers when you are doing something and then add them when you are not.

Until you have been in some cold conditions it's impossible for anyone to really tell you what "you" need. I would just play it safe and always carry one more layer than what you think you'll need.
 
My circulation sucks... my hands are ice cold if its chilly outside! Even with them in my pockets! :p

Quite a few years ago... my first time camping it was 18 degrees. I had a thin blanket style sleeping bag. It was COLD... really, really cold. :D
 
I'm living at 9,300' elevation in the Wet Mountains of Colorado with a bunch of wolves right now. They seem pretty happy even at 0 degrees Farhenheit in their fur. For those without such a nice natural coat I find that wool is wonderful.

I wear 3-5 layers on top which keeps me warm even in the wind, and 1 or 2 layers on the legs. I use Icebreaker merino wool thermals as a base layer (not always the long-johns), then I wear either filson Whipcord wool pants on the warmer days, or Swedish Military wool pants (which are very, very tough and break the wind well) on the colder days. I also have a Swanndri Ranger shirt (wool), Filson Vest/Liner (wool), Swanndri Hooded Bushshirt (more wool), and a Filson Mackinaw Cruiser (very nice wool). Obviously I only wear all of it when it's really freaking cold and I'm out for long periods in a strong wind. For my head I have a rediculous 'deer-stalker' (though they don't call it that) made by Filson too (or a stocking cap). It keeps me very warm though.

Some people really don't like wool, but I've found that for me, atleast, it beats everything else I've tried in cold weather, until you get to extremely cold conditions and then I like Wiggys cold weather gear such as the Antarctic Parka.

Matt
 
Canadian winters are great for cold weather experience.

The longest period I've spent out in the cold was the winter of 95-96, with scouts. -50c with windchill, for a week. Sleeping in quinzees, only walking the 3-4miles to the farmhouse for a hot supper every night and to use the rink they made.
Wool is your friend. So is air and layers.

Fur keeps the animal warm by keeping a warm air layer next to the body, and not circulating all day. Same theory can be done with 3-4 layers. Usually that means long underwear, jogging pants, whatever outer layer you want(such as jeans and skidoo pants). Upper body is just tshirt, wool sweater and then a wind breaking jacket.

Our "usual" winter temp is around -15c to -20c... -4f to 5f. I wear wool socks over my cotton socks, wear jeans without anything under em, and either just the windbreaker layer or wool sweater over a tshirt... and go out walking.

40f(4c) is a heatwave (for 8 months of the year at least).
 
Holy cow!

The swanddri shirts are 100 bucks! I'm guessing theres a bit of a difference between them and a 20 dollar sears plaid button down...

Did you purchase through: www.ecowool.com ? They have free shipping world wide per their website.

:cool:
 
Quick question, for this 40 degree F and below, are we talking about camping out, or just for regular activity in the city and 'burbs?
 
Say your car breaks down and the wind is blowing... best way I can describe my line of thinking.

I hate the cold... so I seriously doubt I'm intentionally be doing any camping in the winter weather. But, from a survival perspective, I'd like to know what I need to have on hand for the "just in case." So when it starts warming up I can snap up some sale items... :D
 
In that case I suggest you have on hand:

1) a heavy duty "space blanket" which is waterproof and reflects radiant heat

2) a big sleeping bag, or if cost is a consideration, some blankets, enough to cover the expected number of people in your car.

3) cell phone to call for help

4) emergency food, like self-heating mre's

If you're already properly dressed for the weather, the extra insulation provided by the above should see you through. As long as you're not totally out in the boonies, you should be somewhere near the reach of a cell tower to call for help. It might not hurt to have a GPS unit to give coordinates too, so you can tell folks where you are, even if you don't know where you are.

From what I recall, should you be say, stuck in the snow, it's best to stay in, or by the car. Rescuers have a much easier time seeing a car from the air than a lost hiker.

The car can also provide some degree of shelter, so you don't need to expend energy creating a lean-to to do the same thing.

Just be careful if you're stuck in snow and running the engine to keep the heater going. If snow blocks the exhaust, it could create a back up of carbon monoxide into the car which could be lethal.
 
Hotrod said:
Holy cow!

The swanddri shirts are 100 bucks! I'm guessing theres a bit of a difference between them and a 20 dollar sears plaid button down...

Did you purchase through: www.ecowool.com ? They have free shipping world wide per their website.

:cool:

Yep, they're expensive. personally I'd go with Filson now that I know they exist but wool clothing (atleast good wool clothing) is an investment. Wool is very tough and I'm confident that unless I abuse alot of what I have, it'll be with me for decades if not my lifetime. You can buy polar fleeces much cheaper but they don't break the wind at all, they're not fire retardent, they pick up smells very easily (wool doesn't) and they don't last anywhere near as long.

Matt
 
m_calingo said:
In that case I suggest you have on hand:

1) a heavy duty "space blanket" which is waterproof and reflects radiant heat

2) a big sleeping bag, or if cost is a consideration, some blankets, enough to cover the expected number of people in your car.

3) cell phone to call for help

4) emergency food, like self-heating mre's

If you're already properly dressed for the weather, the extra insulation provided by the above should see you through. As long as you're not totally out in the boonies, you should be somewhere near the reach of a cell tower to call for help. It might not hurt to have a GPS unit to give coordinates too, so you can tell folks where you are, even if you don't know where you are.

From what I recall, should you be say, stuck in the snow, it's best to stay in, or by the car. Rescuers have a much easier time seeing a car from the air than a lost hiker.

The car can also provide some degree of shelter, so you don't need to expend energy creating a lean-to to do the same thing.

Just be careful if you're stuck in snow and running the engine to keep the heater going. If snow blocks the exhaust, it could create a back up of carbon monoxide into the car which could be lethal.

Bold is what I'm trying to achieve! :D
 
Matt Langley said:
Yep, they're expensive. personally I'd go with Filson now that I know they exist but wool clothing (atleast good wool clothing) is an investment. Wool is very tough and I'm confident that unless I abuse alot of what I have, it'll be with me for decades if not my lifetime. You can buy polar fleeces much cheaper but they don't break the wind at all, they're not fire retardent, they pick up smells very easily (wool doesn't) and they don't last anywhere near as long.

Matt


How long have you had them? Any wear? (I'm looking into making a purchase...)

I like carharrts stuff when it comes to jeans and sweat shirts, they last a long time... even with my "Abuse." All cotton is the problem with both of those! But I havent bought anything with wool except for socks! Maybe I'll skip the low end stuff and go for proven goods this time around... I'll have to beat my cheap side into submission though! ;)
 
Matt Langley said:
Yep, they're expensive. personally I'd go with Filson now that I know they exist but wool clothing (atleast good wool clothing) is an investment. Wool is very tough and I'm confident that unless I abuse alot of what I have, it'll be with me for decades if not my lifetime. You can buy polar fleeces much cheaper but they don't break the wind at all, they're not fire retardent, they pick up smells very easily (wool doesn't) and they don't last anywhere near as long.

Matt

Typical polyester fleece is not intended to be wind-resistant. Therefore it has lots of small spaces that trap dead air when enclosed by a wind-resistant outer layer. (So go figure why "wind block" fleece garments are made with the wind barrier in the middle of the fleece or, worse, inside the fleece. Backwards.)

Polyester can be made far more wind-resistant than even "boiled" wool. Premium tents are made of polyester fabric. However for a variety or reasons, nylon is preferred for the wind layer over polyester.

Polyester is several times as abrasion-resistant as wool. It has several times the tensile strength of an equal strand of wool.

Polypro absorbs odors - giving rise to the famous "Polypro Stink." Polyester does not have that characteristic.

Wool is more flame-resistant.

Wool is classic.

Polyester is machine-washable, non-alergenic, and stays soft.

Polyester is far cheaper.

Polyester is lighter for an equal insulation value.

Polyester has a higher insulation value when wet than does wool.

Polyester dries faster than wool.

Bugs don't eat polyester and its very hard to get mold to grow on it. (When there's mold, it's usually on left-behind skin cells.)



Which, in sum, is why all those nice wool military surplus garments are on the market for pretty cheap prices.

(Edited to correct at least one spelling error :rolleyes: )
 
Is there a nylon/polyester that doesnt make the swooshing sounds? The thing I like about jeans is they are relatively quiet... the only noises I like to make are engine sounds! Either out of a mouth or out of a muffler! ;)
 
Hotrod said:
Is there a nylon/polyester that doesnt make the swooshing sounds? The thing I like about jeans is they are relatively quiet... the only noises I like to make are engine sounds! Either out of a mouth or out of a muffler! ;)

Texturized nylon and polyester have been made for at least fifteen years. No swish. The old plasticy stuff is relatively rare. In fact, polyester fleece garments now dominate the hunting camo market. Again, as pointed out by Matt, a wind barrier is needed with polyester fleece garments -- even if just in your pack for when it gets colder.
 
Hey, Hotrod, your question is a very good one. It is prudent to educate yourself on cold weather survival and the clothing necessary for such.

Here is what I recommend (based on cold weather outdoor experience and wilderness survival training):

- the idea behind staying warm is this: your body puts out a thin layer of warm air around itself. Your goal is to keep the elements from taking away this heat. You accomplish this goal by putting layers of appropriate types of clothing around your body to trap that naturally-produced warm air.

- Fleece traps body heat well. However, it doesn't hold that air well when there is wind. Down traps warmth very, very well, but loses the ability to hold warmth when it gets wet. Wool traps warmth well but isn't generally spun to block wind (but, it is possible). Wool holds warmth, even when wet. Polypropylene insulates well and holds heat when wet. It dries quickly and can dry out your skin. In general, natural materials will burn, but not melt. Man-made materials will melt.

- Some people are allergic to some of these materials. I have a friend who gets very red and itchy when he wears acrylic. Some people are allergic to lanolin, the oil that occurs inside wool. Others are allergic to down. This is something you may or may not be aware of on yourself. If you notice problems when wearing a certain garment, check out the materials it's made of and compare to other garments that don't give you any grief.

- cotton kills. If it's cold outside, and you're in the wilderness or a survival situation, don't wear cotton. Polyester, namely fleece, holds heat well, even when wet. Wool holds heat very well. It is my favorite insulation layer, so long as it's not next to my torso (too itchy). Polypropylene is an excellent insulator and dries quickly. For a next-to-skin layer, get some thermals/long johns made of any of these materials, or a blend of these materials.

- basic rule of thumb: if your feet are cold, put on a hat. Up to 70% of the body's heat is lost through the head and neck. A wool or thinsulate-lined stocking cap is an excellent heat holder. Even warmer is a fur-lined, Russian-style hat. It's like a heat cave for your head. And, it looks "cool", to boot :cool: A scarf or neck gaiter also makes a big difference. And, finally, some good gloves will go a long way.

- take care of your feet. Wool or wool/synthetic blend socks can be life-savers. In colder weather, I like a polypropylene liner sock topped by a good brand wool sock. There are several brands I like - Thorlo, Smartwool, Wigwam, Cabelas, REI, to name a few. When it comes to socks and boots, get quality. I can't stress this enough. Your feet, hands, and head are your lifeline, so get good clothing and take care of them.

- layers, layers, layers. You never know what the weather will do :) There are 3 main components to the layers (as previously stated): 1) next-to-skin. This layer needs to hold heat when wet (no cotton allowed!) and be comfortable. If you are going crazy from itchiness or poor fit, look for a garment that will feel good. Campmor is a good resource for decently-priced thermals. 2) insulating layer. This layer is often made of polyester fleece or wool. Fleece is lighter but can melt when exposed to flame. Wool is heavier but doesn't melt. A wool/cotton blend may be acceptable, here (if the climate isn't too cold or wet and you have a way of staying dry). 3) shell layer. This is the layer that keeps the wind and precipitation from ripping your heat away. This layer needs to stop wind and wet. Gore-tex works well, if taken care of. As a side note, most Gore-Tex products are nylon-based, which melts when exposed to heat sources, but Cabelas is coming out with some cotton and, maybe, wool garments with Gore-Tex. Worth looking into. As an outer layer, there are lots of styles of coats/pants/bibs available.

- wind and wetness are the 2 most dangerous elements in cold weather. They can rip the heat out of your body faster than you can imagine. Wetness can come from precipitation or sweat. Therefore, if it's cold or you anticipate cold, wear clothes that will hold heat, even if wet. And, have a layer to block wind, especially on the torso and head.

- wear layers that won't constrict your circulation. Heat is carried through the body by your blood. If you cut down the blood flow with tight clothes, you will lose out on heat. Over time, this can be dangerous.

Well, I hope this wasn't overly-redundant :cool: Get yourself a Cabelas catalog and look through it. They've got a lot of good gear for decent-to-good prices. Check out the gear on the following web sites:
http://www.cabelas.com
http://www.campmor.com http://www.sierratradingpost.com
http://www.rei-outlet.com http://www.rei.com

These are a few reputable outdoor-stuff dealers. And, you are right, this is a great time to snag some nice, bargain-priced winter-wear! Happy hunting and ask away if you have any more questions!

-TroutTamer
 
No cotton beside the skin... hmmm... guess plain old underwear wont cut it... being cotton and all. Might be helpful if you have to surrender though! :D

Let me get this straight... a 3 layer system would be 2-3 socks, 3 layers of pants, 3 shirt/jackets, gloves and something to keep your head from freezing off.

Is that correct?

Totally alien for me to wear 2 pairs of pants at the same time! :D
 
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