What's the deal with gaps?

[67nick]

I want to point out that not all gaps are created equal. Some gaps can only be seen when held up to the light. Others are wide enough to slip a sheet of paper through. As long as I can't fit a business card through a gap, I can live with it.

- Christian

Well put sir!

 

[supratentorial]

Christian, Thank you reporting back. Can you check Ed's knives? ...just teasing Ed!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Hi Jake, the examples you have shown of the three knives are relatively minor gaping problem-to me not an issue, if it were a over the thousand dollar mark custom would look a little harder, but that Winchester Sowbelly is a stunner!...I have to keep an eye out for the two bladed Sowbellies as they are a beaut-of-a-knife, thank you Jake!

 

[neeman]

Questions like this is, for me, is dependent on the price of the knife.

But the business card is a fair QA as a bottom line tolerence

Gaps are actually the last on my list when checking a knife for QA
Walk and talk, how the blade sits, and rubbing
Then gaps...

Then sharpness (I like Queen knives LOL)

 

[quattromori]

To me, it's no big deal (I don't keep my credit cards and business cards in the same pocket I keep my knife in ).
Unless it's an overly evident thing, it's probably the last thing I check in a knife.
I'm not saying that "no gaps" is the same as "small gaps" or "big gaps". As for many other details, precision is the goal.
Still, gaps don't bother me that much.

Fausto

 

[kamagong]

Questions like this is, for me, is dependent on the price of the knife.

But the business card is a fair QA as a bottom line tolerence

Gaps are actually the last on my list when checking a knife for QA
Walk and talk, how the blade sits, and rubbing
Then gaps...

Then sharpness (I like Queen knives LOL)

Agreed. I'm also glad you like Queen knives, sometimes I feel I am the only one who does.

- Christian

 

[Humppa]

I don´t care about gaps at all. I don´t like them very much, but that´s no reason for me not using a knife with gaps. Dirt are inside the knife and outside, in the gaps, too. For sure.

But it´s an interessting thread and interessting all of your opinions

Kind regards
Andi

 

[Fanglekai]

Agreed. I'm also glad you like Queen knives, sometimes I feel I am the only one who does.

- Christian

I like my Queen mini trapper. I like the bone scales and the blades are centered with nice walk and talk. There is a small gap between one of the scales and the liner but I don't really care. The D2 took a while to reprofile and it's still not where I want it, but being a thin blade it cuts just fine.

 

[black mamba]

The order of importance when checking my knives for QC:

.. 1) scales-- a) well matched, b) closely fitted to bolsters
.. 2) blades-- a) centered in channels, b) lack of blade rubs on multi-blades, c) walk & talk, d) even swedges
.. 3) springs-- a) flush at open and closed, b) over or under bladed, c) gaps with liners
.. 4) blades-- a) edge grinds and sharpness

As you can see, gaps are second-to-last of the things I check for. Only grinds and sharpness are less important to me, because I can fix those myself. Besides, of hundreds of knives I've owned only a few that cost less than $200 have had zero gaps (I mean literally NONE) and only a few have had egregious gaps, so why fret the little stuff.

 

[midnight flyer]

Agreed. I'm also glad you like Queen knives, sometimes I feel I am the only one who does.

- Christian

You are not alone.

My Dan Burke Barlow is absolutely one of my favorite knives. My Dan Burke medium stockman and its little brother the half whittler are almost flawless. I have a gunstock that is so well made and pretty I am holding it back to give to my nephew in a few years. My Country Cousin was not only a steal, but it is a great knife for use as it has become a really wicked slicer due to the blade geometry.

I haven't found D2 hard to sharpen at all and have found it to be a great performer. I use a guided system to set the edge, then strop the smaller knives and they will take a razor edge.

I have some older Queens, but they are stored away in a box. There was a time when Queen had some quality control issues and their steel was questionable, but I would put today's offerings up there with any other manufacturer. Like any domestic knife manufacturer, production doesn't always yield fine examples of the knife maker's art. I only buy them from one guy (Hey Mike!) that comes here on occasion, and he has never sent me a poor quality example of a Queen knife so I don't worry about excessive gaps (my 3 Dan Burkes have NONE) or poor fit and finish.

To top it off I am surprised that Queen knives are still priced reasonably, and that itself makes the brand even more attractive.

Robert

 

[richstag]

I took a pic this morning before I got busy.

This gap is not something you can fix by tightening the lanyard tube. Its actually machined wrong. You can't squeeze it flush because other areas are actually flush and tight. Its just off. This goes around to the back almost to the center pin. There is another gap on the other side of the backspring that can be squeezed together.

At first this was a huge deal breaker. This is going to sound odd coming from a guy that, after this incident, deals with only one dealer that will inspect my knives with a fine tooth comb...but I don't mind it anymore. I actually look at it and breath a sigh of relief that it somewhat broke my unrelenting urge for perfection in knives. Not saying I would knowingly buy one with this issue though...

Kevin

 

[FLymon]

"Why do the gaps matter... or don't they?"

Good question.

I don't know the answer to that for sure, but my best guess is how one perceives (real or imagined) the knife in question.
For example;
I don't know if there are gaps in the springs/liners of my Yellow CV Soddie, and I have used that knife for years, but I immediately noticed the gap in my 2009 Forum knife and almost threw up when I saw it.
Aside from price (which I really believe to be secondary in this example, even though there is obvious difference in price), one of those knives was supposed to be a special limited run made for real knife knuts like us. The other is a (relatively) cheap knife that I use when I don't want to damage a nicer knife.

Obviously the more something costs, the finer you might expect it to be, but if I buy a knife that will be special to me I scrutinize more, regardless of price.
I think of that as more of a "me" problem. It doesn't bother me really that the run of the mill knives from a manufacturer can be expected to be inconsistent, I just know not to buy sight unseen, if I am going to care.

What does bother me is when a company says something like:

"Hey, look at these reproductions of 100 year old knives blah blah blah, heritage. Blah blah blah limited run of xxx pieces. Blah blah blah honor the original."

Maybe we are waxing poetic and knives were crap 100 years ago? I don't know, but based on the above pitch I would expect a real fine knife with no obvious flaws to a discriminating eye.

On any knife marketed as being "special", obvious gaps are not a "me" problem IMNSHO, and are intolerable as far as I am concerned.

 

[supratentorial]

Jeff, I think your list is especially interesting because I think the same criteria are often used and I wonder why the grind is not one of the most important things. Not the factory edge, which I think is #4 on the list, but the profile of the blade itself since it will directly affect the way that it cuts unless Krein or another maker regrinds the knife. The Burke Barlow, which was mentioned earlier, has very thick blades compared to other barlows. Although I thought it was a good knife for several other reasons, the thick grind was a deal breaker for me. For others, it is one of their favorites. I had the knife professionally sharpened but probably should have had the blades reground completely. Another example is the Swayback Jack from Case. I think it's a great knife and completely usable straight from the factory but the performance doesn't compare to the reground "Every Day Kerry" Case Swayback Jack that will out perform all of my other Swayback jacks.

I'm pretty sure that you guys know it but just to make sure... My comments apply to knives made by all brands. I have knives from Case and other brands that have small gaps as well.... even one from GEC (gasp!)... my GEC Genuine Stag White Owl (my baby!) is developing some small gaps between the spring and the liners. I am overly protective of the knife so it wasn't from abuse. There's no play in either blade though. It may have stayed gapless if I hadn't used it... but why have nice tools if you aren't going to enjoy them.

I have a talent (or curse?) that I can find at least a small flaw in just about any production knife from any brand. Show me your "perfect" knife and I'll find something wrong with it! Small "flaws" can be a matter of perception. I may be wrong but I actually doubt that knife manufacturers have the same criteria that most of us use.

I mostly shop by photos and personal communication. If you can't see something and the auctioneer doesn't want to add a photo, there's usually a reason. I think it's interesting that most sellers don't provide a photo of the backsprings even though gaps seem to be an important criteria for some.

 

[pertinux]

Now you've done it. I've just spent the past five minutes going through my slipjoints looking for gaps.

Now you've done it. I was happily reading through this thread, keeping up with the new posts with nary a thought in the world of checking my own knives-- until I read your post! Oh, snap.

Having checked, I'd say that if I have to use a light with both knife and light held at exactly the right angles to see gaps, I'm in good shape gap-wise.

Nothing I discovered gave me any cause for concern. Truthfully, the only knife with a gap that bothers me is a single-blade Bear & Sons Peanut, and it bothers me mostly because it's one of the few knives I bought directly, in a store, before I knew how to look over a knife (or had much to compare with). Had I ordered the knife sight unseen, I would still be dissatisfied but might not feel as silly.

The gap itself isn't the problem, but more that the knife-- while inexpensive-- feels cheap because of the gap and other inconsistencies. It had a very sticky opening (easy at first, than significant drag) that I worked hard to mostly overcome; the blade is slightly curved at its pointy end; and then there's the gap. And I bought it, in person, myself! *Sigh.*

~ P.

 

[black mamba]

Actually Jake, I think blade grinds are among the most important areas of a knife. But, I don't think of those in terms of QC, but more in terms of design or pattern considerations. My list was strictly concerned with build quality, not material quality or cutting ability. I don't like thick blades either, on a pocket knife.

 

[Modoc ED]

There's nothing wrong with these knives pictured by Jake.

The only knife that would actually irk me would be the Queen labled knife and the gap that would put me off is the lower gap. That gap in my mind is a fitment error and should not have left the factory like that.

I too have some knives with gaps in them. It's just a part of collecting/accumulating. The degree of the problem that I'm willing to accept though is very limited.

 

[supratentorial]

Actually Jake, I think blade grinds are among the most important areas of a knife. But, I don't think of those in terms of QC, but more in terms of design or pattern considerations. My list was strictly concerned with build quality, not material quality or cutting ability. I don't like thick blades either, on a pocket knife.

Thank you! I was feeling like I was the only one.

Now you've done it. I was happily reading through this thread, keeping up with the new posts with nary a thought in the world of checking my own knives-- until I read your post! Oh, snap....

LOL!

 

[richstag]

Thank you! I was feeling like I was the only one.

I don't know why you would get that idea

 

[supratentorial]

Kevin, it seems to be seldom discussed. The following thread didn't generate much discussion but I suppose that doesn't mean much... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-most-impressive-grinds-on-production-knives
Handle materials and patterns seem to be discussed more frequently but it might be that they are easier to see in photos.

 

[richstag]

Gotcha Jake. I put it up there as the most important. If a knife doesn't cut well what's the point.