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What's the longest lasting belt for rough grinding?
- Thread starter REK Knives
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So I got some actirox/incinerator belts to check out on hardened folder blades. This go around (same steel type, same hardness) I was able to get 8 each with 50 grit Blaze, 10 each with the 36 grit cubitrom 2's, and 12 each with the actirox. So they do grind more blades for me, just not sure it's worth it with the increased cost of each beltI recently picked up some of the new vsm actirox belts from Brodbeck to try out, I’ve heard that Popsknifesupplies is going to be carrying them as well and was very impressed with their performance for me. I compared them to vsm 870, 885, unbranded vsm from preferred abrasives and cubitron 967 and they beat out all of those on performance and cost. They ended up costing 10 cents per inch doing all post heat treat grinding, the vsm 885s were the next best for me at 15 cents per inch all of the other belts were 20 cents or more per inch. This was with a 14” serrated wheel doing hollow grinds that came up about 3/4-1” the one belt I did wear out is still going for profiling and pre heat treat grinding which ends up bringing the total cost down. The only downside is they are only in 36 grit but they felt like they gave me a lot of control for a coarse belt. Obviously this would be different for everyone but they are worth giving a try. They are about 16.50 per belt but they lasted and performed far better for me.
VSM ACTIROX - AK890Y
us.vsmabrasives.com
Blaze are my favorite so far as well. I find it hard to beat the VSM for the price. Changing to a sharper belt 25-30% more often for the same price has a certain performance advantage of its own. Pops has that new fancy VSM. It has less grit spaced out wider. Sounds pretty awesome. I want to try one and see how it does on really hard steel. I got some 1" belts by mistake from Pop's and it's amazing how much better they do on the hard steel. Once you get to 66Rc it hard to get enough pressure in to cut. That new belt is supposed to grind off something like a kilo in 2 minutes. If anyone tries one I would love to hear how they work.Just curious on other's experiences... So far I get the absolute most life out of a Blaze 50 grit. Joey at pops turned me onto these...
On one belt I got 40 of the small knife, and 7 of the large rough ground (so 47 total). All the blades are magnacut and not heat treated yet.
Are there any better belts out there for roughing the grind in? I like the Blaze 50 grit over the cubitron 2 984 36 grit. They last much longer for me but I'm not going full speed and turning my steel blue either. I rough grind at about 30-40% power. Time wise the small blades take 7 min ea, and the larger ones are 8-9 min ea.
Oh and I didn't break any of the edges before grinding either. Maybe I could get them to last longer that way but I doubt it would make much difference. It seems to help produce fresh grit with each blade this way.
What steel are you using them on? How did you like them as far a feel and control.
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I was using them with flood coolant with a jig so not as much feedback as freehand grinding. They felt like any 36 grit belt though, nice stuff back. I could really put a lot of pressure on them and they didn't fracture as readily as the cubitron 2's do
Steel was vanax
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REK my friend , that was very, very slow for ceramic belts .You use jig as I remember , double that speed and you will double life of belts you use .
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That's interesting... I keep hearing that ceramic belts like speed but I'm not having any issues with fracturing the grains, and even at the end of the belt life I dress it with a diamond dresser to force extra fracturing to get an extra blade or two out of it. I'll post pics what belts look like when I'm done with them. I'm using pretty high pressure though.
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Would you be kind enough to say why you chose the Moen jig over others?
I had also heard that ceramic belts do best at high. I think that if you are using softer materials in a fixture where you can dump in enough pressure that is probably true. The big thing is that that the belt needs to cut. In theory the grit is designed to fracture and self sharpen. Assuming that the grit is piramedal in shape as it begins to breakdown the surface area is going to go up and you would need more pressure to keep it cutting. Once it stops cutting it's going to just dull and glaze. If you are going to grind post HT it's going to get harder to get in enough pressure so that it does cut. Also unless you are using a jig with a full flood system you have to worry about heat input and it's common to just use less pressure. The reason to use low pressure from the way I understand it the reason for slow speed is to try to not damage the tips of the grit to minimize the amount of contact with the surface so the belt needs less pressure to cut. I think it's probably also easier to control the work when putting in as much pressure as possible. There are a lot of things going on while trying to control the work. Different people with different skills working on different material with different hardnesses that require different amounts of pressure and heat input will balance pressure and feed speed with different amounts of comfort and how much workload they can handle. It makes it hard to use what works for someone else work for you. Since it's your money that pays for the belts and your choices for what and how you make knives it seems like it's tough for anyone to say that someone is doing something wrong. Its always good to learn how others do something but however you go about your work it's unlikely that you are doing anything wrong.
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It's the quickest to flip side to side, and it's well built. I did mod it with all stainless screws though (factory screws were rusting) but it's been great since. I use it to rough grind since it's so quick, then freehand from there to get the grind exactly how I like it.
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I checked and apparently I was closer to 4600 sfpm at max speed ... Didn't realize my vfd was set to double the speed hahaha
Here's a used up (as far as bevels go) 36 grit belt. I ground about 10 hardened blades, most from vanax and 1-2 of cruwear @63jrc.
Well , now we are on same pageI checked and apparently I was closer to 4600 sfpm at max speed ... Didn't realize my vfd was set to double the speed hahaha
Here's a used up (as far as bevels go) 36 grit belt. I ground about 10 hardened blades, most from vanax and 1-2 of cruwear @63jrc.
How you take this pictures ? Phone ? I just buy to my kids new iPhone 13 , can that thing take pictures like this ??
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I just take the pic on my Google pixel 4Well , now we are on same page
yeah the iPhone can definitely take some great pics!I will try to take pictures like that of some of my belts .I just take the pic on my Google pixel 4
No shining points on this belt , like it ! Still lot of life in that belt .What i don t understand is when someone say dull belt ?? Belts do not get dull never ! They change grit size , did you notice that. ? The further you use it , the finer the finish on steel .I think what most people do wrong is that they glazing belts ...........
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When I say dull I mean that it's no longer performing how I desire at the speed and heat level I need it to. I could probably get a couple more blades out of it if I really pushed it but at this point I use it for any profile work I need done.I will try to take pictures like that of some of my belts .
No shining points on this belt , like it ! Still lot of life in that belt .What i don t understand is when someone say dull belt ?? Belts do not get dull never ! They change grit size , did you notice that. ? The further you use it , the finer the finish on steel .I think what most people do wrong is that they glazing belts ...........
Yeah I fracture the belt on purpose with diamond dressing, works great
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Just tried some cubitron 3's (36 grit) and while they seem to hold up OK they have a lot of "bleeding" (scratches up into the flats) that I don't get with actirox. Actirox are still my go to cheapest per knife belt 
navman
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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What is everyone's opinions on Combat Abrasives? I have two friends who swear by them. I have been using Blaze orange and VSM belts for years. Tried a sampler package from Red Label Abrasives but had issues with belts popping, same speed and pressure as the VSMs and Blaze.
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I'm running my horizontal grinder at 6600 fpm and just profiled a group of 500 laser cut blanks with one 80 belt and one 120 belt.
Combat Abrasives 80 and a 120 VSM... the 80 is still sharp but the 120 is almost done. I don't think the brand matters nearly as much as speed and pressure.
Combat Abrasives 80 and a 120 VSM... the 80 is still sharp but the 120 is almost done. I don't think the brand matters nearly as much as speed and pressure.
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I tried them once when I first started out, I didn't like them.
But I generally work with Very Hard steels, and higher alloy.
Also since i was a rookie, maybe I wasn't pressing hard enough? All the still I was unimpressed at the time.