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What's with all the de-assisting?

Fish30114

Fish30114

Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
1,495
It seems like anytime I read a post about a specific knife, or somebody's review of one, a bunch of folks start talking about 'de-assisting' the knife. Then there are comments about drilling a hole and adding a detent. Now I know what a detent is, but why does somebody want to add one if they are 'de-assisting' their knife. And why do folks want to de-assist their knife anyway. If folks want a regular liner lock or frame lock or whatever lock, why not just buy one of those to begin with, that's not assisted?

Just trying to figure this out.
 
The reason is because people find a knife that meets every qualification that they are looking for EXCEPT that its assisted. Many (zt, kershaw) are easy to deassist. ZT0350 comes to mind. It has a smoother feel IMO.
 
First off, the reason people want to add a detent, is because most assisted opening mechanism (if not all), use spring pressure to keep the blade closed. No spring = nothing to keep the blade in the handles.

The reason people don't just buy a manual knife in the first place, is because most knife designs aren't offered in a manual configuration.

Hope that helps. :)
Kirby
 
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There's a lot of reasons that factor into people's preference for de-assisted knives. Some folks just prefer a smoother, rolling motion when deploying their blade. Which brings me to another reason. Everyone on this forum loves knives and is completely comfortable around them, but some people just don't get our passion. Those are the same people whose eyes will bug out and jaw will hit the floor when you fire out your 4" blade. Another reason is reliability. It's all Murphy's Law, man. The more working parts there are in something, the higher the chance of said things busting when you need them most. Torsion bars and springs tend to bust after so many openings, and some folks would rather forego that whole experience and carry a knife that will open 100% of the time. I own both manual and assisted knives, and enjoy both. Different strokes, buddy.
 
This is what's kept me away from Kershaw/ZT. Most of the designs are AO, which is a deal breaker for me. I know most of them can be deassisted but I haven't gotten around to one yet.
 
I don't mind assisted knives, but here in WA they're illegal. I believe the RCW forbids the use of a knife activated with a spring. Had a King County Deputy "educate me" when I was carrying my ZT 0400. He was nice and let me take the knife with me after I agreeed not to carry it anymore.
 
I only own two assited knives and I've left them assisted. I don't care for assited knives because they're much more difficult to close with one hand. Give me an Axis knife any day.
 
K.O.D. said:
The reason is because people find a knife that meets every qualification that they are looking for EXCEPT that its assisted. Many (zt, kershaw) are easy to deassist. ZT0350 comes to mind. It has a smoother feel IMO.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Find a $35 version of the spanto XM18 that isn't the (assisted) Kershaw Thermite.

Also:

Speed-Safe knives have a pocket in the scale for the torsion bar. I need to de-assist and drill a detent for these knives before I can make a plain, flat scale out of colorful G10, Micarta, or wood. (I can't mill the pocket out.)
 
grownstar said:
Some folks just prefer a smoother, rolling motion when deploying their blade.
Click to expand...
This.

Yes, an assisted opener can open a blade extremely fast. However, I can open my manual knives, my deassisted knives, and my auto knife just as fast as that assist can get the blade out. To me, all the assist does is add resistance that I don't need. It is (generally) going to take more effort to get the blade started with an assist because you have to get past the strong metal spring instead of just a little ball bearing. Closing them are usually even tougher because the spring wants to push the blade the other way. Detents in this regard are neutral.
I have no problem opening or closing assisted knives I just find that is a redundant system.
 
JOELSM said:
I don't mind assisted knives, but here in WA they're illegal. I believe the RCW forbids the use of a knife activated with a spring. Had a King County Deputy "educate me" when I was carrying my ZT 0400. He was nice and let me take the knife with me after I agreeed not to carry it anymore.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear this, I had heard that AO was legal everywhere though with so many state laws changing not to mention how any LEO might interpret laws I guess it's not surprising.
 
To some people its just about customization. Why do people want to add superchargers, turbo chargers, nitrous oxide & other mods to their cars? To make it their own. People want to have something that is mass produced, but they sometimes want to add a little flair to it. On knives like ZT's there are all kinds of things you can do to them including de-assisting them. If you try to "figure out" why people do things you'll just go mad. Just my 2 cents.
 
I like that last comment Busted_Knuckle. I think I could go mad indeed. Good feedback folks, I just didn't realize that there were so many knives that would meet somebody's desire, other than that they ARE assisted. As to some folks just WANTING to tweak, I certainly understand that. I hadn't thought of a knife not staying closed well without a detent, if you remove the assist. I will say that I like my assisted opening knives, but one of my favorite knives, is my ZT 801, partly because it has symmetrical scales, but partly because it is so smooth of an action--unassisted. Perhaps more mfgs. will start offering non-assisted folders with bearings in the future.
 
Because assisted knives suck. :rolleyes:

The majority of ZT's products that are assisted would be great if they didn't have a torsion bar.

I don't like assisted knives due to:

-unnecessary
-add complexity
-cannot be inertial opened.
 
Busted_Knuckle said:
To some people its just about customization. Why do people want to add superchargers, turbo chargers, nitrous oxide & other mods to their cars? To make it their own. People want to have something that is mass produced, but they sometimes want to add a little flair to it. On knives like ZT's there are all kinds of things you can do to them including de-assisting them. If you try to "figure out" why people do things you'll just go mad. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I would apply that car analogy to custom scales, waving, stonewashing and other mods that enhance either their appearance or function. Assists don't add any horsepower and to some they hinder performance. As they say, your miles may vary.
That last statement couldn't be any truer.
 
I used to be a fan of the speedsafe mechanism from kershaw. What I didn't like was the transfer of blade control when the mechanism took over. Once you pass that point the speedsafe mechanism takes over, all you can do is hold on until the blade fully deploys and the lock engages. I know it's a fraction of a second, but still beyond my control. As previous posters mention, majority of the knives kershaw offers with speedsafe doesn't come a non-assisted version. It's either live with it, pass on it, or modify it. With modifying comes other inherited problems like the missing detent to hold the blade in a closed position. The KVT system coupled with a manual flipper was exactly the compromise I was looking for and couldn't be happier with the ZT0560. I get complete control over the deployment- I can flip it slow or I can flip it fast.
 
When I first got infected with this folding knives infatuation thing, I had to have AO, I mean, it had a spring that flicked the blade out #thwack!#! How cool is that? And they're legal here. Who wouldn't want AO?!? I also read about people de-assisting and couldn't fathom that.

Then over a period of time I acquired a 940, 943, 950 Rift, 707, and learned how much more versatile an Axis lock folder to be sans AO. Not to mention the Para 2's and Manix's.
I do now understand why people de-assist. For good reason.
I haven't though, and I still get a wee urge to smile whenever I deploy the 581, 586, 790, Shallot or even the Oso Sweet. Can't help myself liking it :)
And I find it no trouble to close any of them with one hand.
 
I like assisted knives, but normally I prefer it only on certain designs. If I'm going to buy a big folder like a ZT then I would rather it be manual. If its more slim and sleek then I might rather have it be assisted. The spring/torsion bar breaking is an issue but at least with Kershaw/ZT they are pretty good about replacing them and the knife isn't unusable until then, unlike an auto. Another reason for a detent besides keeping the blade closed is to add resistance. Adding a little bit of resistance to opening the blade makes your finger build up more pressure and when it releases the blade will fly out faster than if it were just a plain blade on a pivot.
 
JOELSM said:
I don't mind assisted knives, but here in WA they're illegal. I believe the RCW forbids the use of a knife activated with a spring. Had a King County Deputy "educate me" when I was carrying my ZT 0400. He was nice and let me take the knife with me after I agreeed not to carry it anymore.
Click to expand...

It seems to me the law in Washington State says otherwise? A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife.



RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

(2) "Spring blade knife" means any knife, including a prototype, model, or other sample, with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement. A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife.


[2012 c 179 § 1; 2011 c 13 § 1; 2007 c 379 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 424; 1959 c 143 § 1; 1957 c 93 § 1; 1909 c 249 § 265; 1886 p 81 § 1; Code 1881 § 929; RRS § 2517.]
 
With the Benchmade Barrage de-assisted you can pull the axis lock back with your fingers & swing the blade out in one smooth motion like most other axis lock knives.

It feels a bit more intuitive to me than the other way. A lot smoother without that spring's kick.
 
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