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What's with all the de-assisting?

You can open a manual knife just as fast as an assisted one. Sooner or later you'll realize that you can open your knife without any assistance. Who you knew? You have control of the blade at all times, you can slow open it, flick it, and when closing, you don have to fight the spring or torsion bar which is very annoying. An assisted knife has more parts that complicates things and may even raise the chance of failure.

One or two of the responses here claim that people deassist just to do it... Just to be different and rebel. Simply not the case its not like companies make two versions the same knife, one deassisted. If that's the case, Id buy the manual version. It just so happens that there are several very good folders that are worth owning if it wasnt for the AO. Companies like ZT know this and add a detent from the factory.
 
Stays Sharp said:
You can open a manual knife just as fast as an assisted one. Sooner or later you'll realize that you can open your knife without any assistance. Who you knew? You have control of the blade at all times, you can slow open it, flick it, and when closing, you don have to fight the spring or torsion bar which is very annoying. An assisted knife has more parts that complicates things and may even raise the chance of failure.
Click to expand...

And once again, this sounds like the same kind of debate between Revolvers and Semi-Auto handguns back in the 1960s & 70s.

The "older" and more seasoned folks said similar things back then.

- People who know how to actually use XXX prefer them over XXX.
- Only "Tacticool" newbies like XXX. More experienced people would rather have XXX.
- XXX is far less reliable then XXX because they are more complicated with more moving parts.
- Folks who know how to use XXX can be just as fast with them as the XXX crowd.


Just because something is faster and more sophisticated, doesn't automatically mean it is less reliable or less durable. Lots of folks eventually learned that about semi-auto handguns. Maybe AO knives will eventually be accepted as just as useful and capable and Manual ones.
 
Snipe315 said:
And once again, this sounds like the same kind of debate between Revolvers and Semi-Auto handguns back in the 1960s & 70s.

The "older" and more seasoned folks said similar things back then.

- People who know how to actually use XXX prefer them over XXX.
- Only "Tacticool" newbies like XXX. More experienced people would rather have XXX.
- XXX is far less reliable then XXX because they are more complicated with more moving parts.
- Folks who know how to use XXX can be just as fast with them as the XXX crowd.


Just because something is faster and more sophisticated, doesn't automatically mean it is less reliable or less durable. Lots of folks eventually learned that about semi-auto handguns. Maybe AO knives will eventually be accepted as just as useful and capable and Manual ones.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll see anyone arguing that their Benchmade, Spyderco, or Kai AO knife is "unreliable" or less useful, but it is certainly unavoidably and demonstrably true that the springs in spring assisted knives wear out and break. That makes them less reliable than a manual knife, and is not a refutable point. That makes many assisted knives somewhat dangerous as most do not have their own detent holes drilled in the blade tang, meaning a broken spring will make for a free-swinging blade if not locked open. Aside from that, they're just as durable as other folders, just as capable, and just as useful, but between laws, personal preference, and the tendency for higher-end knives to be completely manual, most people here either end up with or purposefully choose manual over AO.
 
stog75 said:
Rsngfrse: I don't remember where I saw it, but read the 0560 and other 05XX non- assisted knives are designed to be opened using the flipper. The 'thumbstuds' are actually blade stops and not designed to be thumbstuds used for opening. Who knew? I didn't, and couldn't figure out why for the life of me couldn't even overcome the detent let alone open and deploy the blade using the 'thumbstuds'. That's when I did the research and found that little nugget of information. Who knew the geometry and placement of the thumbstuds were so critical.

After a closer inspection, noticed the distance of the blade stop relative to the axis of the pivot is quite small compared to the distance of other knives with a true thumbstud. Made sense- That distance doesn't provide the 'moment arm' needed to comfortably use blade stop as a thumbstud. It can be done, but not without damn near poking a hole thru my thumb. Sorry for geeking out there, but I HAD to find out for myself the WHY.
Click to expand...

Actually, unless my 0550 is different for some reason (who knows?), it does not have a flipper. I generally have found that knives that HAVE flippers are more difficult to open with the thumb studs and the majority of these do not use the thumb studs as blade stops, which makes me wonder why the knife companies feel compelled to put them on the knife anyway (other than people THINKING they want them).

I'll note that I just got a Schrade SCHA4B, and I find the assisted opening feature on that knife to be excellent, so there ARE good assisted opening knives as well. A well functioning assisted opening knife or non-assisted opening knife is better than an poorly functioning version of either.
 
I do only buy non assisted opening knives(Thanks to the leek). Having either option would be preferred. Unfortunately, some designs, as already stated, only come assisted opening.
 
'Doh! Sorry about that Rsngfrse- 0550 does not have a flipper.
Now why in tarnation is yours not opening easily...
 
Snipe315 said:
And once again, this sounds like the same kind of debate between Revolvers and Semi-Auto handguns back in the 1960s & 70s.

The "older" and more seasoned folks said similar things back then.

- People who know how to actually use XXX prefer them over XXX.
- Only "Tacticool" newbies like XXX. More experienced people would rather have XXX.
- XXX is far less reliable then XXX because they are more complicated with more moving parts.
- Folks who know how to use XXX can be just as fast with them as the XXX crowd.


Just because something is faster and more sophisticated, doesn't automatically mean it is less reliable or less durable. Lots of folks eventually learned that about semi-auto handguns. Maybe AO knives will eventually be accepted as just as useful and capable and Manual ones.
Click to expand...

Ummm, ok. My post still stands...and I CCW a Glock19 and XDM Compact .45. What a ridiculous comparison. I bet you my life that years down the road, assisted knives will not replace manual knives as the largely favored method like how polymers replaced revolvers you cited with your logic.

Here's my post again because that's as honest as it's gonna be:
You can open a manual knife just as fast as an assisted one. Sooner or later you'll realize that you can open your knife without any assistance. Who you knew? You have control of the blade at all times, you can slow open it, flick it, and when closing, you don have to fight the spring or torsion bar which is very annoying. An assisted knife has more parts that complicates things and may even raise the chance of failure.
 
Apec said:
Interesting. I'd have thought that the assist and wave acting in the same direction wouldn't impair function.
Click to expand...

It can cause a bounce back off the stop pin and end up out of battery.
 
To me, AO is a solution looking for a problem. I have three AO knives, Kershaw blur, ZT0350, and SOG flash 1. I plan on deassisting the kershaw and ZT. Why? I don't know.
 
K.O.D. said:
To me, AO is a solution looking for a problem. I have three AO knives, Kershaw blur, ZT0350, and SOG flash 1. I plan on deassisting the kershaw and ZT. Why? I don't know.
Click to expand...

Try it on the Blur. I did a few days ago when mine came in the mail. Super smooooooth and just as fast if I want to flick it out. Those thumbstuds are a pleasure to use.
 
Comeuppance said:
I don't think you'll see anyone arguing that their Benchmade, Spyderco, or Kai AO knife is "unreliable" or less useful, but it is certainly unavoidably and demonstrably true that the springs in spring assisted knives wear out and break. That makes them less reliable than a manual knife, and is not a refutable point. That makes many assisted knives somewhat dangerous as most do not have their own detent holes drilled in the blade tang, meaning a broken spring will make for a free-swinging blade if not locked open. Aside from that, they're just as durable as other folders, just as capable, and just as useful, but between laws, personal preference, and the tendency for higher-end knives to be completely manual, most people here either end up with or purposefully choose manual over AO.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

I'm not against A/O's, and its not my place to tell anyone what they shouldn't like. Flick away, it can be fun. I came in to answer the OP's question and explain why probably 9/10 guys prefer manual. Is it even the chance of failure? Not really, just a point of contention to bring up into discussion. But facts are facts and this guy can't get over it: A manual knife is just as fast, then he goes and quotes it like ok THANKS, that's the most truth you've typed. Congrats.
 
Assuming one can open a folding knife without assistance, the only advantage of an assisted opening knife is a decreased opening time of 1/2 second or less. I can say with some confidence that that increase in speed will never matter to me. The several drawbacks to assisted opening have been mentioned. If I really like an ao knife that can be de assisted, I ll buy it. If it can t be, I ll pass. The analogy of assisted opening knives to automatic pistols is wrong.
 
K.O.D. said:
To me, AO is a solution looking for a problem. I have three AO knives, Kershaw blur, ZT0350, and SOG flash 1. I plan on deassisting the kershaw and ZT. Why? I don't know.
Click to expand...
I agree. The deassisted ZT0350 make a fine manual folder and flipper.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Ummm, ok. My post still stands...and I CCW a Glock19 and XDM Compact .45. What a ridiculous comparison. I bet you my life that years down the road, assisted knives will not replace manual knives as the largely favored method like how polymers replaced revolvers you cited with your logic.

Here's my post again because that's as honest as it's gonna be:
You can open a manual knife just as fast as an assisted one. Sooner or later you'll realize that you can open your knife without any assistance. Who you knew? You have control of the blade at all times, you can slow open it, flick it, and when closing, you don have to fight the spring or torsion bar which is very annoying. An assisted knife has more parts that complicates things and may even raise the chance of failure.
Click to expand...
Agree.
 
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