what's wrong whit Buck Knives?

pinnah said:
As I have Bucks from both eras, I'll comment...

Most important thing to note here is that Buck did not replace 440C with 420HC. The replaced it with a choice between 420HC (for people who prefer fine carbide steel) and S30V (for people who prefer carbide rich steel).

The edge geometry issue with some of the older Bucks is that they used what some people refer to as a "semi-hollow" grind. It's hard to describe but possible to feel with your finger if you hold one in you hand. It's as if they pulled the blade away from the rounded grinder belt as they got close to the edge. The result is that there is a slight swell in thickness as you move down the blade from the spine to the edge. That is, the edge is actually thicker behind the edge and then gets thinner just above.

You might be able to see it in the shading of this older 2 dot 110. Look for change in shading just above the edge, particularly back along the edge near the tang.
Buck 110 and Opinel #10 by Pinnah, on Flickr

One of the results of this slightly thicker edge (not blade, but edge) geometries is that the older Bucks make wood shavings better (for me) for the same reason that a Mora does. The thicker geometry behind the edge allows for more control of the edge angle and less "diving" into the wood. Conversely, the older Bucks are less good at slicing and cutting, both of which favor a thinner edge profile.

This extra thickness behind the edge is one reason people had troubles keeping the old Bucks sharp, again, for same reason people have troubles sharping on convex or Scandi ground blade. You need to commit to aggressive use of a back bevel to maintain the edge profile, otherwise, the 'V' edge gets thicker and thicker as you wear away steel. This, of course, is one reason people like hollow grinds... The blade itself is thinner and doesn't demand as much back beveling.

Buck did a great job with the 440C and does a great job with 420HC. We know how both steels behave and they are very different steels. 440C has carbides and is much better for jobs that demand a toothy edge. If I'm cutting down a large amount of cardboard or cutting carpet - stuff that's super abrasive - I'll reach for this old Buck 500, which has the 440C steel.

Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

For general EDC use or for working with wood, I prefer 420HC. It takes a keener edge, handles lateral stress well and is easily touched up quickly.

The replacement for a carbide rich steel in Buck's line is S30V, not 420HC.



Schrade USA (as opposed to today's Taylor-made Schrade) used 440A up until the late 80s early 90s and then switched to 420HC. Their heat treat was very good on both.
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Good info, thanks Pinnah.
 
Ankerson said:
I obviously have a different definition of what low end is than you. ;)

I checked today at the local Wally World and 110's are just shy of $28 a pop.
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If you don't mind a nylon pouch instead of a leather one. That's a good price for a USA made work knife, because we both know no one collects them😉
 
Considering where the market has been trending, Buck definitely caters to the lower end. Nothing wrong with that but it is the truth.
 
fq55 said:
Considering where the market has been trending, Buck definitely caters to the lower end. Nothing wrong with that but it is the truth.
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They have been lower end for a good while, and no there is nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is.

Not sure why anyone would argue that.
 
Duane Sanders said:
If you don't mind a nylon pouch instead of a leather one. That's a good price for a USA made work knife, because we both know no one collects them😉
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A lot of people collect 110's, that's well known. :confused:
 
I like Buck, they are a iconic brand like timex or zippo but they have not evolved with the industry to the level they need too. Imho.

It's good that they have contracted Paul Bos to do the HT but I do not think there is some kind of a magical process that will make 420 perform extremely well.
 
Anyway, all this buck talk has me seriously wanting a 5160 110, you know for my collection.
 
singularity35 said:
That does sound about right. If you're not spot on, I suspect you're pretty close. :)

BTW, I wonder if anybody knows what steel those old schrade 110 K/O's used. I have one of those that I beat up on back in the early 90's(I think). Never let me down back then too.
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The Old Timer 7OT used 1095, if memory serves, unless it has "Schrade +" on the tang, which would be a stainless steel.
 
Ankerson said:
The ones I know collect the custom shop models and limited runs.
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I can't do that. If I were to buy one I would use it. It would end up being replaced in a few years anyway. That's the allure of the $28.00 ones.

I'm not a huge fan of the size of the 110 anyway. I am more of a Schrade LB5 sized knife guy. From '81-'82 when it first came out through the 90s I went through more than a few LB5 knives. I might have to get another one even though they are China junk now. Just to have and hold to remember. They are cheap enough. Only problem is I will end up using it. I just can't win trying to collect.
 
afishhunter said:
The Old Timer 7OT used 1095, if memory serves, unless it has "Schrade +" on the tang, which would be a stainless steel.
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Yes, it's stainless. That much I can tell.

DSC04776_zps4eptawux.jpg


DSC04777_zpsggqzbhfj.jpg
 
Ankerson said:
I obviously have a different definition of what low end is than you. ;)

I checked today at the local Wally World and 110's are just shy of $28 a pop.
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Low price does not always equal low quality, just as high price does not always equal high quality.

Buck makes a high quality, reliable product, that they guarantee forever, at an affordable price.
I paid less for my Buck 301 stockman than a comperable Case or Boker, yet the Case and Boker are not going to last any longer than the Buck, or require less sharpening or maintenance than the Buck, even though they are roughly double the price. Nor will the Case and Boker necessarally have better fit and finish than the Buck - or a Rough Rider, for that matter.
 
I recall seeing Buck ads from the late 1990s that stated they were using a process called Edge 2000.

This was supposed to give their knives a thinner edge than before.

Their 420HC isn't for edge-holding. It is for ease of manufacture and keeping them affordable for working folks that use them.
 
fq55 said:
I like Buck, they are a iconic brand like timex or zippo but they have not evolved with the industry to the level they need too. Imho.

It's good that they have contracted Paul Bos to do the HT but I do not think there is some kind of a magical process that will make 420 perform extremely well.
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I don't think the 110 needs to evolve. Certain knives are what they are and are just perfect as is. I'm still debating an s30v 110 just to have. Reminds me of my brother grabbing the blade and flicking it open when I was a kid in the 80s and being in awe of it!
 
I was going to talk about how a spyderco military is a better platform than a buck 110 is but I decided I don't care to get into it. If someone wants a buck and it works for them, great. There are undoubtedly better knives for less, equal, and more money but some people dont/won't hear it. It's cool.
 
Some Buck knives are pretty great. :)
Some aren't.

Simple as that.
 
bodog said:
I was going to talk about how a spyderco military is a better platform than a buck 110 is but I decided I don't care to get into it. If someone wants a buck and it works for them, great. There are undoubtedly better knives for less, equal, and more money but some people dont/won't hear it. It's cool.
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A buck 110 is $30. A milli is $110. C'mon. The milli is great, so is the pm2. But being a knife nut I can appreciate both.

For me it's not about being better it's about what the an individual knife is as a platform.

I find the delica, pm2, blur, UKPK, 110 and a lot of other knives as perfect standalone platforms. In the case of the 110 it's a honking big knife with awesome flat handles. And if I ever need to cold cock someone I the head I would rather use a 110 as a platform than a milli!☺
 
Buck has used a dozen different steels on their 110 alone. When you get a knife with S30V or D2 steel and some nice wood, I wouldn't call that a low end deal. Many collectors don't collect the limited edition runs or Custom Shop models. They collect the early models of 440C and solid macassar ebony handles with sound heat treat. Get those features on a knife today and see what it runs you. There is other miss information herein on Buck knives. They went from 440C blade steel to 425M for 10 years and then to 420HC in 1992. And for normal production runs it's that steel today. But they continue to offer upgrade steels in many models off and on with blade coatings and nicer handle materials (stag, bone, Mother of Pearl, ect.. These are not for the low end user guys. DM
 
afishhunter said:
Low price does not always equal low quality, just as high price does not always equal high quality.

Buck makes a high quality, reliable product, that they guarantee forever, at an affordable price.
I paid less for my Buck 301 stockman than a comperable Case or Boker, yet the Case and Boker are not going to last any longer than the Buck, or require less sharpening or maintenance than the Buck, even though they are roughly double the price. Nor will the Case and Boker necessarally have better fit and finish than the Buck - or a Rough Rider, for that matter.
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Bottom line is one NEVER gets something for NOTHING unless it's a gift.

And knowing how things work one is not getting anything high quality for $28 Retail, will NEVER happen because the MONEY just isn't there in that $28 total price for that to happen.

What you do get is a functional knife that works OK.

Don't make it sound like more than it is because it's just not.

That said I have a 110 not even 2 ft from me as I type this and every time I look at it I thank GOD how far the knife world has really come.
 
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