What's Wrong With Gerber?

[Boris74]

Yep technically you are most likely correct but probably npeople don't like talking in probabilities and wouldn't even know the exact values to state without a study.
If somebody says X has always issues and Y doesn't ever then that usually means something like 80% have QC issues and from the other guys maybe 5% . But even if one would say it that way people would still have to define what exactly classifies as QC issues or all the accuracy would be meaningless and wasted words.
I fell like I'm wasting words too since I bet you already knew what was most likely meant by that "absolute statement"
At least I can take away one has less QC issues and the other much much more.

No need to get hung up on some writer not being logically perfect. None of us are, many times.

I carried an EZ out Jr for 18 years. Not the best but it served its purpose perfect. Pocket clip has worn before the knife itself, almost lost it so it was replaced, a lost knife means no knife.

Anyway your last comment on QC issues is skewed enormously by the Internet. I see so many complaints about Another brand and so many problems with everything from lost/loose screws to locks so sticky a screw driver is needed to assist the lock bar to cracked broken blades (all from the same brand). Immediately followed by about 800 supporters defending the quality defect. But a Gerber or unpopular brand has a problem and places like the Internet take one instance and recycle it everywhere over and over. Worst part is the recyclers, as seen here in this thread have never used or owned one but are the quickest to tell you exactly what they read and recycled and how the blade is absolute trash. So there is no need to buy or use one, the Internet told them, and they just told you.

The individual reading has to be able to wade through the BS and actual experience reports and ignore the ones with no personal experience and leave it at that. They all have QC issues, in this case the real issue is people who never owned or used them recycling issues. A weak attempt at best to make something look worse than it actually is.

 

[bladeboss]

8 glorious pages!!
btw, my good friend just loves his Gerber tanto folder. It's his EDC.
rolf

I'll get some popcorn.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

I carried an EZ out Jr for 18 years. Not the best but it served its purpose perfect. Pocket clip has worn before the knife itself, almost lost it so it was replaced, a lost knife means no knife.

Anyway your last comment on QC issues is skewed enormously by the Internet. I see so many complaints about Another brand and so many problems with everything from lost/loose screws to locks so sticky a screw driver is needed to assist the lock bar to cracked broken blades (all from the same brand). Immediately followed by about 800 supporters defending the quality defect. But a Gerber or unpopular brand has a problem and places like the Internet take one instance and recycle it everywhere over and over. Worst part is the recyclers, as seen here in this thread have never used or owned one but are the quickest to tell you exactly what they read and recycled and how the blade is absolute trash. So there is no need to buy or use one, the Internet told them, and they just told you.

The individual reading has to be able to wade through the BS and actual experience reports and ignore the ones with no personal experience and leave it at that. They all have QC issues, in this case the real issue is people who never owned or used them recycling issues. A weak attempt at best to make something look worse than it actually is.

Why would that Internet distortion or recycling issues hit Gerber more than others?

Lets assume this magnification affects all similar issues from all companies the same. Then Gerber attracting more of it means there are more underlying issues. Maybe it looks like Gerber 80% qc issues and a particular competitor 5%. Now if the net makes things look 5times worse than they are, Gerber would in actuality have only 16% but the competitor would also be only 1%. Still a 16fold difference and the point stands.
Actually a company with better Q and higher prices usually makes much more of a splash when a QC issue surfaces. Thus the internet distortion of things would be more in Gerber's favor.

If you however think Gerber gets disproportionately affected by Internet magnification of issues I would like to know why. Bad brand management? Also how much impact would just another bad Gerber have in the Internet vs a broken blade of a "more liked" company?

 

[Bobby3326]

List of Gerbers I've owned.

1.Freeman (broke)
2. Myth (broke)
3.prodigy (solid knife)
4. Bg ultimate survival (broke)
5.lmf2 (decent knife if used for its designed purpose)
6.moment (broke)
7. Strongarm (solid knife)
8 multi-tool don't remember exactly which (broke)
9.Gerber big rock (actually a tough cheap beater knife)

So 5 out of 9 Gerbers I've owned were junk, and broke in various ways, and they shared 1 similarity, all made in CHINA.

There the only company I've experienced multiple failures with, so it's not like an isolated incident. Out of all my other Beckers, tops, schrades, moras, kabars, and benchmades I've owned, I've experienced one incident amongst all of em a tops bob with a bad heat treat.

 

[Boris74]

Why would that Internet distortion or recycling issues hit Gerber more than others?

Lets assume this magnification affects all similar issues from all companies the same. Then Gerber attracting more of it means there are more underlying issues. Maybe it looks like Gerber 80% qc issues and a particular competitor 5%. Now if the net makes things look 5times worse than they are, Gerber would in actuality have only 16% but the competitor would also be only 1%. Still a 16fold difference and the point stands.
Actually a company with better Q and higher prices usually makes much more of a splash when a QC issue surfaces. Thus the internet distortion of things would be more in Gerber's favor.

If you however think Gerber gets disproportionately affected by Internet magnification of issues I would like to know why. Bad brand management? Also how much impact would just another bad Gerber have in the Internet vs a broken blade of a "more liked" company?

I take it you haven't read this thread. I seen a few who don't own or use them that are the most vocal on why they are the worst and why no one should buy them and if they do, they should throw them away.

Everything after let's assume is more Internet facts being created. It's a numbers game. Brand X makes 100,000 knives and has 512 failures. Brand Y puts out 1,000,000 blades and has a failure rate of 2,800. Who will get more air time on failures? Which one has a better chance of selling you a knife that don't meet quality standards? Brand X is easiest found online and brand Y is sold in every big box from Menards, Meijer, to Walmart and beyond.

Now add in the people who never used or owns one running around and they look much worse than they actually are. If you don't believe it, just wait a minute. Someone is going to be along shortly to remind all of us.

 

[Sunyata]

I carried an EZ out Jr for 18 years. Not the best but it served its purpose perfect. Pocket clip has worn before the knife itself, almost lost it so it was replaced, a lost knife means no knife.

Anyway your last comment on QC issues is skewed enormously by the Internet. I see so many complaints about Another brand and so many problems with everything from lost/loose screws to locks so sticky a screw driver is needed to assist the lock bar to cracked broken blades (all from the same brand). Immediately followed by about 800 supporters defending the quality defect. But a Gerber or unpopular brand has a problem and places like the Internet take one instance and recycle it everywhere over and over. Worst part is the recyclers, as seen here in this thread have never used or owned one but are the quickest to tell you exactly what they read and recycled and how the blade is absolute trash. So there is no need to buy or use one, the Internet told them, and they just told you.

The individual reading has to be able to wade through the BS and actual experience reports and ignore the ones with no personal experience and leave it at that. They all have QC issues, in this case the real issue is people who never owned or used them recycling issues. A weak attempt at best to make something look worse than it actually is.

It's the same with restaurants. People love to post bad reviews but don't always post good reviews unless it was above expectations but you can see a pattern. A good restaurant will have people posting good reviews in large numbers. There will be some bad reviews but they don't have a lot of traction.

A mediocre place will have a lot of bad reviews and a few good. Most of the time most people wont be bothered to post anything unless they got something exceptional or terrible.

A crappy place will have a lot bad reviews but some fervent good reviews by people with an emotional investment in the place owned by friends/family, was their spot until it went bad, or whatever.


Knives are the same way great companies will have a lot of people stand up for them. Mediocre companies will have a mixed bag often with people rationalizing their decisions and crappy companies will be similar.

 

[EricV]

Shockingly poor reasoning going on here.

 

[okto]

Brand X makes 100,000 knives and has 512 failures. Brand Y puts out 1,000,000 blades and has a failure rate of 28,000. Who will get more air time on failures? Which one has a better chance of selling you a knife that don't meet quality standards? Brand X is easiest found online and brand Y is sold in every big box from Menards, Meijer, to Walmart and beyond.

What about Brand Z, which produces as many knives as Brand Y, is equally highly available, and has a shining reputation for QC and very little airtime about its failures?

Because that brand is Kershaw. Similar size, production, and distribution to Gerber (hell, they're both even HQ'd in Oregon), yet you don't hear everyone talking about how many Scallions they've broken or the Blur that launched its blade like a crossbow.

 

[afishhunter]

The one Gerber I bought back in the late 80's or early 90's dulls cutting warm margarine.
It will not take or hold an edge.
I will never buy another Gerber anything.

For the "Chinese made haters": My Gerber was Made in the USA. My traditional Rough Riders, Colt, Marbles, and a couple Buck slip joints made in China knives ALL have excellent fit and finish, zero blade wobble, came razor sharp out of the box, take and hold an edge, (I used my Rough Rider large sunfish to carve some seasoned oak, did not have to re-sharpen or even touch up the edge, it is still shaving sharp.)
Gerber, regardless of where it was made is garbage. They either do not heat treat/temper their blades, or they do a really bad job at it.
I'll take a traditional Rough Rider over any Gerber knife, or a "Sheffield" multi-tool (which are garbage) over any Gerber multi-tool. (I have a Leatherman, so don't need or want the Sheffield, just using that as an example)
What I do not understand is this: If you had a Gerber and it broke or failed, why, in the names of all the gods would you buy another Gerber?!? Learn from your mistakes, don't make the same one over and over and over and over ...

 

[Hiro-kun]

Because that brand is Kershaw. Similar size, production, and distribution to Gerber (hell, they're both even HQ'd in Oregon)

Do you have a cite for this? I've always had the impression that Gerber is far more widespread than Kershaw, but I've never been able to locate hard numbers on international availability or production volume. I understand that Kershaws are readily available at American Walmarts. However, Canadian Walmarts do not have them. Nor does any major Canadian retailer that has a brick-and-mortar presence. Gerber, SOG, Smith & Wesson, and Buck are the most available of the major brands here.

In terms of popularity, Gerber's Facebook page has more than triple the likes than Kershaw's. This seems to support the idea that Gerber has wider distribution and therefore larger production than Kershaw does.

 

[Bobby3326]

I've had 5 out of 9 Gerber failures,(6 actually since I had to return the first strong arm for defect) if the theory they make a ton of knives and most are good is true with a rare bad one then I Must have the worst luck

 

[Natmat]

I sharpened my buddies Gerber for him and it literally wouldn't take and edge. the steel is absolute trash I've gotten aluminum sharper.

 

[chambelona59]

I sharpened my buddies Gerber for him and it literally wouldn't take and edge. the steel is absolute trash I've gotten aluminum sharper.

Steel type was?

 

[Quiet]

Gerber being defended by a huge Schrade fan? Well, that's consistent, since Taylor owns 'em both, if I recall correctly. Or Fiskars. Whoever.

Their knives are garbage. Every single Gerber I've had has been trash that can't keep an edge. The Internet didn't tell me that. Perhaps if people knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be trying to argue that Gerber should get a pass.

 

[FCCBCT]

Beside the legitimate low quality gripes a lot of people don't like how Gerber used to make great quality, American made production knives and then Fiskars bought them, dropped the quality, moved most of their production to China and basically smeared the brand name.

I grew up with Gerber knives, the likes of the Shorty, Pixie and Magnum. If you are at least 50 plus and know your brand Gerber, you will know the models I talk about. But for those who don't, Fixed blades, hard chromed, solid alloy handles, super hard alloy blades, extremely rust resistant (my grandfather lost a Magnum in the sea- three years later his youngest son, one of my uncles found it by chance diving in the same spot, the handle was slightly pitted the blade totally untouched.) These knives held an edge but were very difficult to sharpen if let go blunt- I learnt to sharpen them on a Si Carbide synthetic- it took yonks to do it. They were made in the USA. Fiskar's do make good products, the ones made in Sweden and they are def higher in price than their MIC stuff. The problem (IMHO-before anyone jumps down my throat) is that all manufacturers that want cheap and head off shore to China, at the end, yes get cheap but it comes at a price. That price is paid by the end user, who happens to be the person who ends up with a dud from poor QC. Plus those manufacturers are always complaining about fakes. Funny that.

as a quick aside.
In fact to see a slight resemblance of what these models looked like just look at the maxpedition range. Yes there is all this hoo ha about who copied who with this design but I think those of you who know the models i speak about will see the real copy cats.


FCCBCT

 

[marcinek]

I take it you haven't read this thread.

And I take it you havent read the post by Bobby3326 that comes immediately before yours.

List of Gerbers I've owned.

1.Freeman (broke)
2. Myth (broke)
3.prodigy (solid knife)
4. Bg ultimate survival (broke)
5.lmf2 (decent knife if used for its designed purpose)
6.moment (broke)
7. Strongarm (solid knife)
8 multi-tool don't remember exactly which (broke)
9.Gerber big rock (actually a tough cheap beater knife)

So 5 out of 9 Gerbers I've owned were junk, and broke in various ways, and they shared 1 similarity, all made in CHINA.

There the only company I've experienced multiple failures with, so it's not like an isolated incident. Out of all my other Beckers, tops, schrades, moras, kabars, and benchmades I've owned, I've experienced one incident amongst all of em a tops bob with a bad heat treat.

 

[marcinek]

Everything after let's assume is more Internet facts being created. It's a numbers game. Brand X makes 100,000 knives and has 512 failures. Brand Y puts out 1,000,000 blades and has a failure rate of 28,000. Who will get more air time on failures? Which one has a better chance of selling you a knife that don't meet quality standards? Brand X is easiest found online and brand Y is sold in every big box from Menards, Meijer, to Walmart and beyond.

So lets look at your numbers.

Brand X has a failure rate of 100 x (512/100,000) = 0.512%
Brand Y has a failure rate of 100 x (28,000/1,000,000) = 2.8%

Brand Y gets more "air time on failures." Why? They have a higher failure rate.

 

[Bobby3326]

You know honestly I'm grateful for Gerber..They're lack of consistency opened my eyes and lead me to better brands...i use to think it was crazy to spend over $50 on a knife when there were so many knives readily available for <$50.

However I soon realized why those knives cost more...having to constantly replace those budget knives quickly added up to a much greater cost.

Buy once, cry once.

 

[nine4t4]

I've owned Gerber stuff in the past and it was okay, not great but not horrible. A friend still has one of his and he abuses the hell out of it. The steel is probably s30v so its atypical.

-OWNERSHIP MATTERS
At this point Gerber isn't so much a knife company as a brand. That doesn't mean that it's automatically crap, but the parent company (Fiskars, is what a google search said) is going to try to make the most out of their purchase. Fiskars makes good stuff, but you'll never see them dump money into making Gerber scissors that rival a pair of Fiskars. If they can stick a BG on the handle of a cheap knife and sell it, they will. They also have a smaller market for USA made knives that are fairly good, and are twice the cost. People that know quality will find it, for the bear gryls stuff they will dump WAY more money on advertising than they would on the USA stuff. While my EDC griptilian is a good knife, nobody would say that it feels like a proper benchmade (I did add scales.

This happens all the time. I've owned Kodiak and Terra workboots. Back in the day, they were quality made in country. Over the years companies capitalize on the brand and slowly erode the quality. So what used to be made in Canada (or the US) gets production moved to Mexico. But they realize they can save more by going to Asia. So they start making the boots in Viet Nam, or some other country. Eventually the only country stamped on the sole is China, and they don't last 6 months. By this point the brand has been sold and resold repeatedly. But the boots cost the same amount they did 15 years ago, so they still sell even if the quality of the past is a fading memory

It's the WALMARTIFICATION of brands. Trump and others, can bitch and moan about jobs going to China or other countries, but the average guy isn't going to spend twice as much on something if he can't appreciate the quality difference. It's a catch 22. They complain about chinese made product stealing jobs, but won't spend the cash for US made because it's to expensive.

Not all gerbers are crap, but the majority of the stuff under the label is now made for the Walmart customers.

 

[KingMC]

Everything after let's assume is more Internet facts being created. It's a numbers game. Brand X makes 100,000 knives and has 512 failures. Brand Y puts out 1,000,000 blades and has a failure rate of 28,000. Who will get more air time on failures? Which one has a better chance of selling you a knife that don't meet quality standards? Brand X is easiest found online and brand Y is sold in every big box from Menards, Meijer, to Walmart and beyond.

So lets look at your numbers.

Brand X has a failure rate of 100 x (512/100,000) = 0.512%
Brand Y has a failure rate of 100 x (28,000/1,000,000) = 2.8%

Brand Y gets more "air time on failures." Why? They have a higher failure rate.