Whats your opinions?????

[B . Buxton]

I am curious, what is your description of a person that says he's a knifemaker? Be honest and truthful, no flowery crap, just down right truth, what do you truly think the title knifemaker should mean.

If you don't agree with any of my poll options, please feel free to explain, I would really like to know what everyones idea of a knifemaker is.

Thank you

Bill

 

[Dan Pierson]

I picked the third by a hair. I really think that anyone who calls himself a knifemaker should know about heat treating in some detail even if he always has, say, Paul Bos do it for him.

Personally, I do my own heat treating because it's important to me to do it. All I can hope for is to do as well as the professionals so I don't think that it means I make a better knife because of it.

 

[PbRx]

I think you can call yourself whatever you want to. It's the first amendment, and you'll just waste time arguing one way or the other. Whether you are worth a damn at doing it is more important and what you'll be judged by.

Take antique Japanese swords for example: the forging process was likely done by an apprentice (albeit under supervision) and the polishing was done by a dedicated polisher. Does that make the guy whose name was etched on the blade less of a sword maker?

 

[RUJOCO]

#2....

If you're going to call yourself a maker of anything I believe you should have an intimate knowledge of all aspects of your product. Although some of us don't have the time or resources (work, ) to devote to every latest development, as a full time maker I would expect myself to have a working knowledge of my chosen materials. I do at the moment have have sole authorship of carbon steel blades, however I cannot do stainless heat treat. That's why I don't deal with stainless. What few stainless blades I have done over the years, I was lucky enough to have a very supportive heat treater to at least teach me the basics of that product.

 

[B . Buxton]

The name on the sword is probably the teachers, who gave many years of his life working as an apprentice to gain the knowledge, then and only then , could be called a Swordmaker.

Bill

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

First,

I you haven't voted yet, do so first before reading my opinion so it doesn't color your own.

To me, the blade is the knife. If you don't make the blade, you didn't make the knife, you assembled it. No shame in that, but a knife maker you are not.

I think that if you make the blade, but don't perform the heat treat, you can still claim to have made the blade if you specified what you want in the heat treat. I use a digitally controlled furnace for my heat treat. So I don't do the heat treat, the furnace does. No? So if you have someone else put the knife in the furnace (Paul Bos) but instruct what you want in the heat treat, there isn't a great difference in my mind. It ain't an art, at least not if you're doing it right

If you have a blade that you designed cut out by someone with a water jet, did you make the blade?

If I have a blade I designed cut out on my CNC mill that I setup and I programmed and I operated, (this is how I do it), did I make the blade?

Soul authorship? Did you make the steel, mine and smelt the ore...

 

[RUJOCO]

Perhaps " sole authorship" was a bad choice of words on my part. Semantics allways get in the way. Although I know of a handfull of makers who can and do smelt their own steel, I know of none who do the mining of the ore.I'm sure that we can agree that we as knife "assemblers" gather the basic materials to fabricate the different components of our knives that never existed in that finished form before. Right down to altering it's atomic structure through proper manipulation of heat treat. That was my definition of sole authorship. I'm sure, most if not all here , belong to this group.

 

[JCaswell]

I think Nathan has it about nailed.

Still, since there's no authority to regulate who calls themselves what, It seems like the whole thing is more like this:

You can bounce a basketball and play the game (sort of)--you're a basket ball player. Saying you're a basketball player means nothing in itself and nobody's going to argue with you about whether you are a player or not if you stink at it or don't know all the rules. Your claim to be a player is modified by your relative ability.

My 2 cents.

 

[B . Buxton]

Yes, but if there was no professional heat treaters for you to rely on could you still make a knife? I look at a sharpened piece of steel as just that, it doesn't take on being a knife until heat treated properly, and then it becomes something other then a tire tool or a crow bar.
I think you can go into unreasonable extremes when it comes to soul authorship, making your own steel is a bit far fetched( I know some do it and I commend them for their hard work) using a grinder,a drill press, mill or any other machine operated by electricity would demean soul authorship if you really wanted to go there, even using a hammer or file unless you made the hammer or file yourself would negate soul authorship, simply because you had to call upon someone elses profession to help you accomplish yours. Heat treating isn't so, it just takes commitment and dedication to learn how to heat treat, something thats in everyone grasp.


Interesting throughts, thank you.

Bill

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Perhaps " sole authorship" was a bad choice of words on my part. Semantics allways get in the way. Although I know of a handfull of makers who can and do smelt their own steel,
.

No, I don't think it was a bad choice of words. I think you are entirely correct. I was just using that as an example of even a fairly clear cut definition as soul authorship could be argued, so "knife maker" is gonna be real hard to pin down. I think the guy that gets someone with a waterjet to cut out his blanks still made that knife. Profiling the circumference of the blade ain't the hard part...

Even if he never touches a single blade that goes out his shop, Chris Reeve's is a knife maker in my book.

Are my knives, made with many CNC operations, still hand made? They need to make grinders with foot peddles for folks wanting "handmade" knives. Or would those be "footmade"?...

 

[butcher_block]

so gray in the 2nd and 3rd about how far do you go

i do however believe that puting kit knives together is not making the knife its merely putting all the parts together or your a knife handler and as said no shame in that. alot of times thats the gateway "drug " that kicks you into making the knife when you cant find the blade blank you want to finish

 

[butcher_block]

nate i have to disagree about Chris Reeves i think he is a knife manager with many makers working for him now that said i don't know if he did at one time grind his own blades or not (i would think so tho)

 

[JCaswell]

To me HT isn't more challenging than any other aspect.

When I started doing knives in '95, I did it all from forging the damascus through to the end. In fact, until my latest folder project, every knife I've made was in my own damascus, HT here in my shop-built salt pots, etc.

After a while, though, personally manning drilling fixtures and doing routine HT procedures is just not interesting--certainly not challenging or profitable.

It was hard, but I came to the conclusion that, for me anyway, "sole authorship" was largely just a point of ego.

I'll still do sole authorship art stuff, but the challenges of limited-production engineering are substantial and frankly more interesting to me at the moment.

(I'm still sweating blood over each knife, so I still have a way to go, I guess, since CNC is supposed to do it all for you)

 

[rocketmann]

I went with #1, but could make a good argument for #2 as well. The term sole aurthorship to me means making the knife and its components myself. Anyone can pick apart a definition or a word to suit their own needs or view point (remember Clinton when he said define sex ect..) to make themselves feel better. I don't fell that it matters what machines you use to accomplish your goal as long as you do it..For me if I had some one else cut out my blanks, do the heat treat and then I assembled the knife with a ready made guard, it would be a stretch to say that I truly made the knife...

 

[Raymond Richard]

Bill, I like being call the Pope even though I know I isn't one. If a guy wants to be called a knife maker so be it. I worked with a lot of so called carpenters that weren't carpenters but were called carpenters because they had the tools.

 

[OldPhysics]

I went with b.

I don't know many knifemakers ... but, based on those I do know, I have a very high opinion of them.

 

[RUJOCO]

Nathan,

This could go round and round endlessly if people don't look past specific definitions of maker or sole authorship.( Sorry I ever wrote that ) I do maintain that a maker (one man band ) of anything does need to have reasonable control of every operation of their product, from start to finish. Start being the basic materials and finish meaning components made from basic materials. Whether it be cnc, stock removal or forging. And ...the heat treat is probably the most important aspect of all in making a knife. In keeping with the choices given in the poll......that's my answer and I'm sticking to it!!!

As far as waterjetting blanks, I'de consider it if I was going into manufacturing with an assembly line to assemble my knives. But as a little guy, you are right, profiling a few blades isn't the hard part.

Everone please disregard the sole authorship thing. Get the Genie back in the bottle...please.

 

[B . Buxton]

Rudy, I got him back in and corked the bottle.

Ray, or should I say Pope Ray. me too.

Bill

 

[RUJOCO]

Thanks Bill. Us old carpenters have to look out for each other.

 

[Keith_H]

I dont think that where the knife is heat treated depends on whether or not he or she is a knife maker. If I bought some A2, I would send it out, but the knife would still be made by me.