Whats your opinions?????

[Whoever Wherever]

If you dont extract your own iron from sand or stone you are just a wana-be. I mean, you may as well just buy a spyderco and slap your logo on it. =P Just kidding of course. As far as heat treat goes, even if you do your own how many people "invent" there own HT specs. Only a few (Fowler comes to mind with 52100), most us are just using temps, hold times and ramp ups that are told to us. So in my mind thats a big ol can of worms.

Dustin

 

[grease-man]

I chose #2 because if I personally made a blade of stainless steel I'd have to farm out the heat treat. I don't have the equipment to HT stainless steel or air hardening steels at this point. Then there is the cryo treatment necessary for some stainless steels. I don't have a dewar for storing LN or whatever else a person needs for it.
I can, however, make a knife from carbon steel or O-1 tool steel etc. forged or stock removal and heat treat it myself. I prefer to heat treat myself because I enjoy the control and experimentation that comes along with it. Do I or do I not call myself a "knifemaker"? After about 7 years, I still hesitate to call myself a knifemaker because its a rare occasion that I can make one without f-ing it all up to the point of no return, or get curious and test one to destruction. (which is fun by the way) I support this site with my knifemaker membership, but feel a little uncomfortable wearing that title, since there are so many here that do it so much better and faster and with so many great ideas. Why do I have a knifemaker membership? I know what I do in my shop...I make, therefore, I am. -Matt-

 

[L6steel]

I was the other one that chose the last option.
The reason I did is because I think the choices were over complicated.
Make a knife by forging or stock removal.
That's what a knife maker does in my book!

Great idea for a poll and thread Bill, thanks!!!

 

[langchop]

If I get a friend to give me a nice shape for a knife design, send it a profiling company, put it in a cnc grinder to profile, send it to Paul Bos to HT, give it to my carpenter friend to glue some wood scales on, stamp my name on it and sell it....
Am I a knifemaker... I managed the process?

If I design and make a jig to cut a profile, can I still be considered the craftsman who profiled the blade?

Officially I make no selection on the poll... its a massive grey area with no clear answer, but I think PbRx and Nathan summed it up simply and perfectly.

Lang

 

[Rob!]

I chose "all of the above" because I think that putting together a kit is a very reasonable first step onto the long road. (although I've never done so) Jeeze, you don't have to be a Master to be a maker. Just be one of those who finds something better (more meaningful) in personal effort than you find in the Wal-Mart showcase.

Rob!

 

[steelshaper]

Some knives do not have handles. A knife does not need to be heat treated to cut.
some knives are made of things that do not get heat treated like stone. A stone knife does not get ground or forged but knapped. A bronze knife does not get hardend and temperd like a steel one would. A kit knife is a knife before it has its handle aplied.

In my opinion a knifemaker can use any tools and or materials he or she chooses.

At the same time a good knifemaker is a matter of degree.

William Crump

 

[Mark Williams]

Sometimes I will make a pizza from scratch which to me is making the crust and sauce from ingredients. But I dont make the cheese or the pepperoni. Have I still made a pizza ?

 

[B . Buxton]

No, I don't think you have to be a master either. But in order for you to produce something better then wal-mart don't you have to be willing to take it one step further. Knowledge and the willingness to learn is what keeps the craft going.
If you look at the poll, all it really comes down to is taking it that one step further to learn how to heat treat your own work, and thats what most of those that voted agree on.
You can say theres to many gray areas to pinpoint any particular answer, thats fine. But to me its quite simple. We all have our opinions and thats all this was for, to see what people throught.

Mark, actually it was the heat treatment that made the pizza, before that you just had a gooey mess.

Bill

 

[sunshadow]

I am working to become a maker. I forge, grind, heat treat, cast or machine the furniture, do my own handle work, and make my own sheaths. I have worked on one smelt and made a blade from the bloom steel. I have finally located a source of magnetite ore and will hopefully by spring done a bloom smelt in my backyard. Will I be a maker at that point? only if my work is of sufficiently high quality.
I think one has to have a working knowlege of all of the processes involved in the creation of a knife to be a maker, and a high enough level of craftsmanship that knowlegable craftsmen will judge the work well made

-Page

 

[AcridSaint]

Some knives do not have handles. A knife does not need to be heat treated to cut.
some knives are made of things that do not get heat treated like stone. A stone knife does not get ground or forged but knapped. A bronze knife does not get hardend and temperd like a steel one would. A kit knife is a knife before it has its handle aplied.

In my opinion a knifemaker can use any tools and or materials he or she chooses.

At the same time a good knifemaker is a matter of degree.

William Crump

I'm with William on this. I voted #3, I don't think you *have* to know heat treating to call yourself a knife maker. Once upon a time things were work hardened and folks probably didn't really know what was going on, they just did it because it's how things worked.

I think you *should* have heat treating knowledge, but I don't believe it's a prerequisite. Nathan also has a point about the oven doing the work.

The most important thing in my book is just letting people know *how* your knives are made, including if the heat treating is farmed out.

 

[Shann]

As someone who has never made a knife, but is interested in it, I think of a "knifemaker" as someone who can make the blade, handle, etc. and at leasts understands the heat treat process and can discuss it with the treater.

 

[robinsteele]

I chose "none of the above" primarily because I believe the term knifemaker is broader in its true definition than it is generally applied here. We as knive enthusiasts are much more knowledgable and/or demanding in what we consider to be knives. However, the way I would define a "knifemaker" would be "one who makes knives". The question then becomes what is a knife. A knife, in its most basic form, is a tool deliberatly built to cut or stab. Being able to create such a tool would make you a knifemaker.

HOWEVER...
That does not necessarily mean you are a GOOD knifemaker.

 

[B . Buxton]

More interesting opinions I must admit, thanks for pointing them out.

As to what was stated about the oven doing the work this is wrong, the oven is just a heat source, like a gas or coal forge, torch, or a good wood fire.
The knowledge learned as to how to apply the heat, to obtain the most from the steel is what heat treating is about, but then again thats just part of the process, the right quench oils , soak times, normalizing cycles, pinning down the right tempertures , then tempering heats and cycles these are all part of the heat treating process, thats what heat treating is about, not just popping it in an oven for a certain amount of time and then taking it out. This process is all done by the maker by hand. Sure an oven comes in handy because it comes up to and maintains a certain heat but thats just a heat source, without proper knowledge and dedication its worthless..

William, I agree a piece of steel doesn't need to be heat treated to cut, but to perform to its full potential it does, unless your looking for a pry bar, BUT then it even needs to be heat treated so it gives and doesn't break with out bending like a noodle. I have great respect for knappers that is an art for sure, but even the indians threw away their stone knives when they discovered steel, and just because they didn't have the knowledge to get the most out of it back then, does that mean we should settle for the same today when we know how to make it better. Blacksmiths knew the benefits of heat treating steel, they knew how to harden plow points, knives and axes. Just because it wasn't heat treated years ago, doesn't mean it shouldn't have been, it just meant they didn't know how or they didn't have steel capable of benefiting from heat treating.

Thanks everyone for participating, you have all opened my eyes to the different definitions of the word "knifemaker".

Bill

 

[Mike Turner]

I went with #1 but it was a tough choice as #2 is appropriate as well IMO. If I could have chosen both I would have.

 

[steelshaper]

The point I was trying to make is if I as a knifemaker do not make knives as good as yours am I not a knifemaker? I personally feel that a knifemaker should be able to do every part of the process him/herself. At the same time will something like the new friction forged knives from Knives of Alaska make what we do obsolete? If they are so great, their edge holding and strength is so much better than do my knive stop being knives? A knife is a knife even if it is not the best knife.

I feel that a knifemaker should be #1 but may not be.
William Crump

 

[B . Buxton]

No, I never said anything about being as good or better then anyone else. What I stated was MANY didn't have the knowledge to know how to benefit the steel through heat treating years ago.
Thats not so in todays world, with the books written, the internet and all the willingness of proven makers to share, the knowledge is there and easily accessable. So isn't it up to each individual to do the best he can to obtain the knowledge available to produce his highest quality possible his/her self.

I didn't say anyone had to, I just asked a question. I understand the definition of " Knifemaker" could go on forever, because to many people twist and turn what others say to suit there own ideals and opinions. But look at it this way, if you don't have to heat treat a piece of steel until it becomes a knife, then why does everyone heat treat or have their work heat treated before they try to sell it as a knife?
I also don't think that forging, metal removal or friction forging has anything to do with the definition, making a knife goes beyond the shaping of a piece of steel to look like a knife, before it is one.

Again thank you for your throughts,

Bill

 

[Dan Gray]

some would beg to differ just by saying forging or stock grinding ? and stop there
for me I went with number 2

I do think for one to call him or her self a knife maker you should be able to make a knife that works
at least reasonably well by yourself, with heat treating as well.. I'm sure old sword makers could do it all if they wanted to
but chose to do what they do/did best and let the others do what they do best..

I think it boils down to, if you call your self a knife maker, do you think you are a good maker or not? if you lack the knowledge to do it all your self.
I know how to make steel but I don't do it..
but again I don't call myself the best maker out here either.