When do you think Case took a turn for the worse?

brownshoe said:
It doesn't offer the stain resistance of stainless and it doesn't offer the good edge and sharpening characteristics of carbon steel.
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I'd love to know why you think that, then. I can work my D2 longer than about any other steel I have, including good ol' 1095 and the premium stainlesses. That's impressive edgeholding. As for stainlessness, I can't fault D2. I've carried mine a year at work, haven't done a thing to prevent rust aside from a wipe on my jeans when it gets dirty, and all I have is a single smoky spot the size of a pinhead.
 
brownshoe said:
Buy your Queen, but as soon as they get dull, have fun reprofiling their edge. Their edge is too obtuse and their D2 steel takes forever to reprofile. I don't think D2 is the best choice for a slipjoint; its not the optimum compromise. It doesn't offer the stain resistance of stainless and it doesn't offer the good edge and sharpening characteristics of carbon steel.
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With even moderate sharpening skills D2 is not that difficult to sharpen, especially with some of the sharpening aids on the market today.

D2 is, in fact, a great compromise for just the reasons you mentioned, it's more stainless than Carbon, and holds an edge better than many stainless, especially the cheap ones commonly used in slipjoints.

While D2 is not one of my favorite blade steels I'll take it any day over cheap stainless.


So, I am a fan of 80's era Winchester's put out by Bluegrass/Queen. Maybe you can tell me what I really need to know about them as well?
 
I think most of us see problems with consistency and wish they would consider using a little better steel and heat treat.

Like Fasteddie I feel you can see and feel the difference when you handle an xx series (1940 - 1964 regarless of what they say on ebay ;)) I'll take a honestly used knife from that era as an edc over just about anything going today. I also think the question of a downturn is Case quality is a valid one.

At the same time, Case has turned things around in the last few years as far as their level of fit and finish and that makes we wonder if the trapper may have slipped buy q.c. I have a couple of new ones and everything is well squared off and well finished.

On Queen D2, I love these knives. I was looking forward to them when they were announced and have been using them since they came out. I reprofile to a 0 bevel (not that hard or time consuming even with a basic course and fine stone, when you consider other steels that do take a significant amount of time that might be on a tactical or fixed blade. Pretty much after that you can just strop on occasions for months at a time before they need a touch up. I would have to use that stone on an edc stainless Case at least once a week. (At least that is my experience.)

I was able to get a congress in D2 for a passaround lottery that is going on now for 35 or 36 bucks total. That is one heck of a value.

Man those Winchesters during the late '80 and early 90' were great. I have not used any but the level of fit and finish, walk and talk was refreshing at that time. I was dealing at weekend shows back then and managed to keep a few back for my collection.

They are fine knives along with the Case Classics from that era which came from the same source (Bluegrass/Queen). They are not as expensive as the Classics are now so I think you put your finger on a pretty good buy since on average the quality is equal. I pretty much specialized in those two issues when I was working the shows in this area so I was fortunate to handle quite a few. I still get calls now and then from old customers who are pretty thankfull they bought them when they did. (Most have sold some on ebay and are trying to talk me out of the ones in my collection :D)).

They were not as nice as Cripple Creek, but they could hold their own with the rest of the gang from any era in the U.S. (Let's face it the Sheffield era knives are in a class all by themselves.) ;)
 
I have to admit I was driving the boat with a lure in the water on that last post :)

The deals are to be had on eBay for BG Winchesters. When you can pick one up for $35-$45 dollars there it's harder to pull the trigger on a new Queen or Case...

Here's a bad picture of my newest (top)... this is a 1987 one..

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My experience with queen D2 is not as pleasant. In a humid environment it pits and discolors as bad as carbon. However since its so hard, a little bit of Flitz does nothing to it, you need 1200 grit sandpaper and some time. Thus in my book it ain't stainless and not as easy to maintain as straight carbon.

I don't have diamond hones, just ceramic plus stone and my queen took longer to reprofile than any knife I have other than a 1998 Benchmade spike with the hard ATS34 and also an obtuse edge. I know many people who use case CV, they easily put and keep an acute angle for good slicing. Many people sharpen these types of knives flat on the stone with a convex edge. This would be a real PIA with a Queen. I know how to sharpen, I'd rather have an edge that needs to be sharpended a little bit more often than one that's a bear to take care of. What if you get some damage due to abuse or an accident, you'll be working a lot harder on your D2 than steels both carbon and stainless.

My favorite knife steel for a slipjoint is ATS34 a little on the soft side. I'd rather have carbon than cheap stainless. I'd rather have D2 than cheap stainless. I'd rather have carbon than D2.
 
Gents,
Great Thread! All good points of view. Also, I must confess after reading Rod Neeps' review, I too ordered (3) of these new Frost knives. I have never been a fan of knives made in China, but after giving this review a thorough going over several times, I just have got to see for myself.. And for a total of $24. delivered to my door, I'll do just that.

I also believe Bastid pretty much summed it up with the case follies, and do not think that anything that I could add to this regarding his last post would be benificial. Save that I, to this day, still carry a case xx 1940-60's trapper with stag scales as my EDC and would not give it up for any newer version of the same even though the master blade is at about 70% at its current state.

Best~
 
After reading Rod's review, I ordered a few of those Frost knives. Too inexpensive to not find out what they're like...

Has anyone who ordered them (as a result of reading this thread) received them yet? Any opinions?
 
Yeah, I got my 3 in last weekend.

I'm impressed with them when compared to some of the factory slipjoints I own.

They have nice tight back springs with no gaps. They're finished evenly and have good transition from bone to bolsters. The blades are ground perfectly and the edge on them is thin.

About the only complaint I have is on a couple of the blades the snap is not real strong in the springs and thye are a little gritty opening and closing. Another minor annoyance is that only the primary blade has the hardness test which means it's more of a marketing ploy than a QC check. Of course these are all complaints I've found on a $6 knife ;)

I won't buy more because they just don't have the appeal of an old Winchester or a custom but for the price I certainly wouldn't hold it against someone for buying one. I only hope some of the US makers are looking at these things and trying to adjust accordingly. (eg, switch to finishing after the knife is assembled instead of before which is clearly what they're doing with these knives)
 
Your Avatar made me look twice. A nice set flashed before my eyes until the brain processed the rest and said, "relax! It's Fat Bastid!!" :eek: :eek:

Anyway, six bucks almost qualifies as a throwaway. Blades for shaving cost around that much.
 
Regarding those Frost slipjoints referenced in Rod Neep's post:

I bought 4 of them about a month ago (saddlehorn, copperhead, lockback, stockman) from Rod's link to http://www.collectorknives.net/steelwarrior.html. By the way, Mike was great - fast delivery, courteous service.

I'm not impressed with the springs on the stockman, but the Saddlehorn and the Copperhead are very good. I haven't done much with the lockback yet.

The Copperhead has been in my pocket most days for several weeks, and for a $6 knife, I am really impressed. Everything is straight, the springs snap open and shut, and it's easy to sharpen. Yes, I doubt it holds an edge as long as better steels, but if I have to spend 2 minutes on a weekend with a Sharpmaker, it isn't a problem to me (I'd want to play with it anyway). Can't beat the price for the quality.

Also, something else I've been thinking, for anyone's comment. There is frequent comment about the superiority of higher-carbon steel in terms of its ability to hold an edge - no argument there. But, to keep those babies rust-free, one needs to oil frequently, if not after every use or two (depending on what was being cut). To me, if I spend a minute or two oiling, or a minute or two on the Sharpmaker, it's equal time. And, stainless doesn't require the oil to keep it rust-free, so if/when the slipjoint is used for food, you don't have to deal with the oil (i.e. taste?) involved with the higher carbon steel.

So, I guess maybe what I'm saying is that if I'm going to use it for food frequently, my leanings would be toward stainless. Not so much for me; I don't care about what little taste the oil would add - but my wife, grandkids, etc. do care...

Any opinions? Some of you out there must be using your slipjoints for food prep for people other than yourselves, especially if you have kids who prefer their apples peeled ;)
 
edb said:
So, I guess maybe what I'm saying is that if I'm going to use it for food frequently, my leanings would be toward stainless. Not so much for me; I don't care about what little taste the oil would add - but my wife, grandkids, etc. do care...

Any opinions? Some of you out there must be using your slipjoints for food prep for people other than yourselves, especially if you have kids who prefer their apples peeled ;)
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That takes me back to the "teaching" my father gave me with my first knife back in the 1950's.... "Keep it clean enough to eat with"..... and "forget stainless steel knives, carbon steel is the best, just clean it and keep it oiled".

And what do I use on the blades of my carbon steel knives? Olive oil. Why not? Its perfectly edible, not a nasty taste. (Although I do wipe the oil off before using it for food, it doesn't matter if some is left on).

Cheers
Rod

ps.
Glad you like the Steel Warrior ;)
 
Hi Rod (and any others),

So, it occurs to me - if you have olive oil (or any other type) residing on the blades of your slipjoint, and your slipjoint rides in your front pocket, don't you get oil stains bleeding through the pocket sometimes?

I mean, if there's enough on there to "wipe off", then it seems like it would work its way off the blades (ya know, gravity and all). Not that I don't wear stained clothing - I do, and don't care that much (I usually wear jeans and a golf/polo type shirt to work), but it is an office environment, so... :confused:
 
There just isn't enough oil on it to worry about! Just the lightest smear will do.

Cheers
Rod
 
Sword and Shield said:
I've never oiled a knife enough to worry about it. Just like a car- thousandths of an inch thick is all you need. :)
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Heard a funny story about oiling knives. Years ago, a collector brought a knife back to Ron Lake at a show. This story comes from someone who was at the table. The customer complained that the knife didnt operate smoothly. Lake put on a couple drops of oil, exercised the blade and gave it back. The customer complained that it still wasn't working right. Ron told him that he'd have to take it back to the shop and take it apart and rebuild it, because the tolerances on his knives were so precise that the oil couldnt get in between the parts.
 
I don't know when Case took a turn for the worse, but it seems the quality is ok today. I recently bought two amber bone knives made by Case--I'd buy more if they would produce more models in cv---and both, as far as I can tell, are top quality. I'm at the point that I would rather buy a USA knife even if it is not 100% rather than an import that might be 100% perfect. I don't want Case or any other US knife maker to follow Schrade into oblivion.
 
I had the opportunity to handle some very old Case knives at a collector's show and I must say, they certainly did some excellent work back then. The knives I handled were extraordinary for production knives. Materials were superlative.
 
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