When is a short fixed blade better than a large/sturdy folder for bushcraft/survival?

RX-79G said:
No. This is like saying that it doesn't matter if you're trying to hit a target at 200 yards with a pistol or a rifle. They might be equally mechanically accurate, but one tool is significantly easier for a human to use.
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But, to use your analogy, knowledge + experience will bring your target a lot closer... ;)

-Brett
 
RX-79G said:
Relax. There was no insult intended - I was simply addressing earlier posts about how survival was nonsense.

What sort of profession or environment are you in that you have to provide your own cutting instruments to get by?
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Telephone/Data systems installer.

In my profession, many types of cutting tools are needed. I am expected to provide my own tools. A good utility knife is mandatory, and a box cutter just ain't going to cut it (Pun intended).

Throughout the day I have to cut a variety of things from cable, Tie wraps of many sizes, (which are extremely hard and tough plastic, and can roll an edge in a second by the way), cardboard, ceiling tiles (which are extremely abrasive and rough on any edge), and sometimes shave a little wood. Also I have had to punch many holes in sheet rock. I have even had to punch a hole or two in thin sheet metal from time to time.

So the environment/profession that I work in does require me to provide my own cutting tools. I find a stout "heavy use" folder is extremely useful on a daily basis.
Do I "use my knives hard" every day? No. Most days I use my knives in a normal manner. However, I do use my knives every day, and on many occasions I have to put them to some heavy tasks.

Not everybody has an office job, some of us actually have to cut, shave, and punch holes through rather heavy materials while standing on ladders and such, and in this type of work environment, your employer does not supply your tools. You are expected to supply your own tools. It's a very diverse world out there.

By the way, I find that having to punch holes through so many different materials like I do, A strong knife with a tanto tip is very useful. I love my Emersons.

Just my two cents.
 
ebidis said:
Telephone/Data systems installer.

In my profession, many types of cutting tools are needed. I am expected to provide my own tools. A good utility knife is mandatory, and a box cutter just ain't going to cut it (Pun intended).
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Just about 99.9% of all craftsmen in Sweden carries a Hultafors or Mora knife, whether they are plumbers, electricians or carpenters,
when the knife is worn out you just get another, many does not even bother to replace the sheath, just put the new knife in the old sheath.
 
All things being equal a fixed blade is always better, however, the folder is often a helpful compromise.

n2s
 
B34NS said:
I just picked from your use case scenario, just by preference. I'm curious as to what physics you mentioned though. As I think is what op is trying to delineate. What's the advantage of the CS in your opinion over the crkt?
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OP already answered that, and I would agree. Frankly, I don't think a preference argument is gonna cut it, as you earlier claimed a fixed blade is always better. I'm wondering why the CRKT would be better than the Lawman as that's a part of what you claimed.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
OP already answered that, and I would agree. Frankly, I don't think a preference argument is gonna cut it, as you earlier claimed a fixed blade is always better. I'm wondering why the CRKT would be better than the Lawman as that's a part of what you claimed.
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Well give me better choices next time! It's your instance here. I personally wouldn't pick either. Flint chips the size of that neck knife have served us well the last few ten thousand years wouldn't you say? If the largest land animals at the time go extinct, yet man is still alive today, how can you say skillset has nothing to do with physics. I just don't see how a folder is any "better". From a physics perspective I see breakpoints on that folder, not utility. Skin an animal with that folder and watch it become even less functional.
 
RX-79G said:
Knowledge and experience might also keep you from breaking a lock or pivot on a beefy folder.
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Yes, that's exactly the point. :thumbup:

In an emergency situation, you'll have to get by with whatever tools that happen to be on hand. Knowing more than one way to accomplish a goal will make your tools more effective (ie. wood processing does not always mean batoning.) To me, the heart of bushcraft is skill-development and practice; the tools used are incidental and situational.

RX-79G said:
(...)When does big a folder become a liability? How small can fixed blade be before the advantages of one piece construction are lost in the fact that the blade or handle are so small that you can't put that much force into them anyway? (...)
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It is often said that the best survival knife is the one you have on you. Choose an EDC knife that's comfortable for you to carry and you'll likely have it on you if/when an emergency situation presents itself. What do you want your knife to do in such a circumstance? If your top priority is, say, fire or shelter building, go practice with your EDC gear. Experience will always make a live situation a whole lot less stressful than trying to figure things out on the fly.

Perhaps I'm missing the point of the OP, though. If I had a large sandwich and was asked what knife I'd rather use to cut it in half: a Spyderco Military or a BK-13 Remora? Obviously, the larger folder would be quicker, easier and less messy to use than the small fixed blade. But given a choice between similar sized knives, I'd choose the fixed blade, all day every day.

tl/dr: Imma gonna go get me a sammich! :D

-Brett
 
timberweasel said:
But given a choice between similar sized knives, I'd choose the fixed blade, all day every day.

tl/dr: Imma gonna go get me a sammich! :D

-Brett
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This appears to be the problem. Similar sized when deployed? Or similar sized as you would carry them?

There is no doubt that that a 3.5" Mora is a much, much better choice than a large folder with a 3.5" blade. But fold that lockback and try to find something that stows as small in a pocket and you end up with a tiny, tiny fixed blade with a much less useful handle.

The whole point of EDC is that you don't have to make special arrangements to have it on you. Even a smallish fixed blade is large compared to a big folder when we're talking about getting it in a pocket.

The whole bushcraft/survival "neck knife" thing appears to be a more recent fad based on this largely theoretical idea that folders have a high likelihood of breaking when you need them, so an absurdly small fixed blade is seen to be a smaller liability than a bigger, more useful shaped knife. Which may be pretty darn illogical.
 
ebidis said:
Telephone/Data systems installer.

In my profession, many types of cutting tools are needed. I am expected to provide my own tools. A good utility knife is mandatory, and a box cutter just ain't going to cut it (Pun intended).

Throughout the day I have to cut a variety of things from cable, Tie wraps of many sizes, (which are extremely hard and tough plastic, and can roll an edge in a second by the way), cardboard, ceiling tiles (which are extremely abrasive and rough on any edge), and sometimes shave a little wood. Also I have had to punch many holes in sheet rock. I have even had to punch a hole or two in thin sheet metal from time to time.

So the environment/profession that I work in does require me to provide my own cutting tools. I find a stout "heavy use" folder is extremely useful on a daily basis.
Do I "use my knives hard" every day? No. Most days I use my knives in a normal manner. However, I do use my knives every day, and on many occasions I have to put them to some heavy tasks.

Not everybody has an office job, some of us actually have to cut, shave, and punch holes through rather heavy materials while standing on ladders and such, and in this type of work environment, your employer does not supply your tools. You are expected to supply your own tools. It's a very diverse world out there.

By the way, I find that having to punch holes through so many different materials like I do, A strong knife with a tanto tip is very useful. I love my Emersons.

Just my two cents.
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Again, not trying to insult all the surgeons, butchers, cobblers, carpet installers, etc. that have to use knives at work. I had thought the topic and the idea of "EDC" would have made it clear to most folks that we aren't talking about a specialty work blade, but the knife that you choose to have on you for the unexpected.

If you choose to use a tactical EDC folder in place of an electricians knife - great. When I was doing similar work I sometimes used my pocket knife instead of the provided tools.
 
RX-79G said:
This appears to be the problem. Similar sized when deployed? Or similar sized as you would carry them?

There is no doubt that that a 3.5" Mora is a much, much better choice than a large folder with a 3.5" blade. But fold that lockback and try to find something that stows as small in a pocket and you end up with a tiny, tiny fixed blade with a much less useful handle.

The whole point of EDC is that you don't have to make special arrangements to have it on you. Even a smallish fixed blade is large compared to a big folder when we're talking about getting it in a pocket.

The whole bushcraft/survival "neck knife" thing appears to be a more recent fad based on this largely theoretical idea that folders have a high likelihood of breaking when you need them, so an absurdly small fixed blade is seen to be a smaller liability than a bigger, more useful shaped knife. Which may be pretty darn illogical.
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Ah, gotcha! :)

Yep, I'm a folder guy m'self when it comes to EDC. Anyone who might suggest that someone's gonna die in a survival situation just because they carry a folder over a fixed blade is talking nonsense... :p:D

-Brett
 
RX-79G said:
This appears to be the problem. Similar sized when deployed? Or similar sized as you would carry them?

There is no doubt that that a 3.5" Mora is a much, much better choice than a large folder with a 3.5" blade. But fold that lockback and try to find something that stows as small in a pocket and you end up with a tiny, tiny fixed blade with a much less useful handle.

The whole point of EDC is that you don't have to make special arrangements to have it on you. Even a smallish fixed blade is large compared to a big folder when we're talking about getting it in a pocket.

The whole bushcraft/survival "neck knife" thing appears to be a more recent fad based on this largely theoretical idea that folders have a high likelihood of breaking when you need them, so an absurdly small fixed blade is seen to be a smaller liability than a bigger, more useful shaped knife. Which may be pretty darn illogical.
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Well said, although EDC is a laughable concept to anyone who uses edged tools for a living. You always have them. I agree the neck knife fad today is geared more towards self defense than survival at least in terms of design and carry. The new survive! Neckers are certainly not in the same ball park as others. Although a sharpened tuna can can be just as effective in the hands of of an experienced user. Not as many novice enthusiasts are as comfortable holding the blade and not the handle, but not everyone comes from the culinary experience. We used to give young cooks shit for bringing 12inch chefs knives to the line. The more experienced chefs always used smaller fixed. I've never seen a folder used instead of a paring knife in that case. I typically carry a 3.5 fixed in my work bag and a 3.5 folder in my pocket.
 
Unless the break that folder during the first use because they aren't aware of its practical limits.

The EDC and survival thing is about dealing with the unexpected. I'll most likely have a folder with me regardless, but will likely have a fixed blade with me if I am planning to "survive" or out roaming the woods. Like carrying a handgun, you are preparing for the unexpected in most cases which often means you have a smaller knife with you than you might otherwise choose for your survival situation. But just having any knife with you is somewhat comforting in a bad situation. If I am out roaming the woods, I may well have a much larger caliber handgun with me, just because and it might well be a whole lot more practical in use for survival versus the little pocket gun with a 2" barrel that most can't hit anything not the size of a 5 gallon can beyond 15 feet.
 
The closest experience I've ever had to a "survival situation" was a car breaking down in a mountain pass on Christmas Day, in a modest snow storm, about 27 years ago. I was young at the time, but as I look back on that day and appreciate that it's the most extreme situation that is realistic given the context of my life, I understand this truth:

There is nothing I could ever need to do to survive in my life that I couldn't get done with the ZT 0566 in my pocket, or items in my EDC.

In THEORY, "a fixed blade is always better". In reality, it will never make a difference in my life.
 
If anyone dies because "all they had was a folder", then they were just going to die anyway.
 
bld522 said:
I'll just leave this here.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/289315-Hello-everyone

Try that with a folder. :rolleyes:
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Cold Steel shows cutting through sheet metal with folders.
Stabbing car doors, cutting through garage doors, etc.

Some of my friends have used folders that weren't even that expensive to cut through sheet metal of various thicknesses...they didn't have internet "experts" to tell them it wouldn't work.
So, in short, you lose.:)

Care to try again? ;)
 
3" blades with 4.25" handles are my bread and butter, and preferred EDC's. For discretion I often downscale by about 10-15%, but I prefer my 100% scale. I optimize for leverage and control over blade length.

most ~3" folders fall right in the same overall size range, but usually have less usable handle. They are more concealable when that matters, but weaker always.

This does everything I need 95% of the time:

IMG_20140106_232405-small.jpg
 
Looks good, daizee. If I needed to carry a short-bladed knife for seriously hard use, that's what I would opt for as well. What's your usual carry method for a knife with that kind of geometry?
 
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