When is everyone okay with copying designs?

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craytab said:
Very true, but there is value to be had here. It is a good way to learn who to add to your ignore list ;)
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Setting people on ignore doesn't really work very well . . . or at least it hasn't for me. Problem is you'll be in a thread where someone you have set on ignore is involved in a conversation with someone you don't and you can't figure out what the heck is going on between them (and maybe others as well) because you can only see one side of the conversation. Best thing to do is just ignore them manually, if you know what I mean. ;)
 
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How does Schrade get taken seriously as a knife company at shows like SHOT when most of their knives are just direct copies of original designs? Schrade doesn't even try to hide it; they just copy an expensive knife even down to the micarta pattern, make it in cheap steel, and sell it for $40.
 
retzius said:
How does Schrade get taken seriously as a knife company at shows like SHOT when most of their knives are just direct copies of original designs? Schrade doesn't even try to hide it; they just copy an expensive knife even down to the micarta pattern, make it in cheap steel, and sell it for $40.
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Because knife buyers have been enjoying Schrade's copies 40+ years? Why change now?
 
craytab said:
To Karda:
To me:

Wow! I think you might be taking this whole thread thing far too seriously. I'm out until there is actually something pertinent to talk about.
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I think people being civil is as serious a matter as ever needs to be discussed on a forum.
 
bld522 said:
Setting people on ignore doesn't really work very well . . . or at least it hasn't for me. Problem is you'll be in a thread where someone you have set on ignore is involved in a conversation with someone you don't and you can't figure out what the heck is going on between them and maybe others as well because you can only see one side of the conversation. Best thing to do is just ignore them manually, if you know what I mean. ;)
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Oh, I totally get what you are saying. I more use the ignore list to create a running list of people I won't buy from or sell to just on principal :thumbup:

Also these tend to be the people who's opinion I don't care for.

There are too many for me to remember them without a list!
 
retzius said:
How do they get away with that legally? Can't imagine that holding up in court...
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I'm no Schrade expert by any means, but it's possible their designs don't cut into sales for the other companies' profits, (particularly since they changed hands) and/or everyone sees it more as homage... I can't deny there are a few tried and true Schrade designs in my collection.
 
retzius said:
How do they get away with that legally? Can't imagine that holding up in court...
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Because there is no legal protection on how a knife looks. Patents, copyrights and trademarks can't define a simple 3 dimensional shape.
 
RX-79G said:
Because there is no legal protection on how a knife looks. Patents, copyrights and trademarks can't define a simple 3 dimensional shape.
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Interesting... so a chinese car company could copy the exact shape and look of a Jeep Wrangler and sell it as their own?
 
retzius said:
Interesting... so a chinese car company could copy the exact shape and look of a Jeep Wrangler and sell it as their own?
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Unless Jeep can demonstrate that the shape of their vehicle is a necessary component of a patent, there is no reason anyone couldn't make something Jeep shaped. Arguably, this has already happened many times in car history - especially with kit cars. And here in the States.

You just can't put the words "Jeep" or "Wrangler" on the vehicle.

Can you imagine a world where you couldn't buy an aftermarket part for a Jeep? Those don't violate patents either.

And since this thread is "about knives", take a look at all the aftermarket scales, liners, standoffs, screws and pocket clips that miraculously bolt right onto popular knives. How did that happen?
 
RX-79G said:
Unless Jeep can demonstrate that the shape of their vehicle is a necessary component of a patent, there is no reason anyone couldn't make something Jeep shaped. Arguably, this has already happened many times in car history - especially with kit cars. And here in the States.

You just can't put the words "Jeep" or "Wrangler" on the vehicle.

Can you imagine a world where you couldn't buy an aftermarket part for a Jeep? Those don't violate patents either.

And since this thread is "about knives", take a look at all the aftermarket scales, liners, standoffs, screws and pocket clips that miraculously bolt right onto popular knives. How did that happen?
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It would be fairly easy though to argue that the shape of a knife is a necessary component of its performance and therefore of a patent. A shape of a knife directly effects is cutting performance and overall durability. I don't think that would be hard to prove. After all, the main differences of a knives true performance related to its intended use (i.e. to cut things) is in the blade shape.
 
RX-79G said:
And since this thread is "about knives", take a look at all the aftermarket scales, liners, standoffs, screws and pocket clips that miraculously bolt right onto popular knives. How did that happen?
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How does that relate to a company copying a knife design? So once I buy a knife I am not allowed to modify it? I can't make after market mods to it? Explain this.
 
craytab said:
How does that relate to a company copying a knife design? So once I buy a knife I am not allowed to modify it? I can't make after market mods to it? Explain this.
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It relates because neither the components of the knife or the whole knife are protected. You can copy a scale, or an entire knife. Both are legal.
 
RX-79G said:
Unless Jeep can demonstrate that the shape of their vehicle is a necessary component of a patent, there is no reason anyone couldn't make something Jeep shaped. Arguably, this has already happened many times in car history - especially with kit cars. And here in the States.

You just can't put the words "Jeep" or "Wrangler" on the vehicle.

Can you imagine a world where you couldn't buy an aftermarket part for a Jeep? Those don't violate patents either.

And since this thread is "about knives", take a look at all the aftermarket scales, liners, standoffs, screws and pocket clips that miraculously bolt right onto popular knives. How did that happen?
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Not sure how long you've been away from the internet, but KIA has had licensing to manufacture for a while now. Only a few models come off the line where the willy's were produced anymore. They don't have to copy, it's called licensing.
 
RX-79G said:
It relates because neither the components of the knife or the whole knife are protected. You can copy a scale, or an entire knife. Both are legal.
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you can't trademark a thousands year old pattern. Otherwise musems would be raking in the dough. try again. Try it with tech at any scale and watch the lawyers eat you for breakfast. Let's be real.
 
RX-79G said:
So? Didn't both versions copy other designs, and wasn't it legal both times?
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"New" Schrade bought out the old US-made Schrade when the latter went out of business. New Schrade is usually called Taylor Schrade on BF to distinguish it from the original. And while I don't know the details, presumably Taylor Schrade bought the designs, logos, trademarks, and perhaps even the tooling of the old brand. Taylor Schrade knives are made in China, not New York State.

New Schrade knifes' quality? Variable. People here have reported some good experiences. I have a Taylor Schrade 51OT that's a good knife and much cheaper than a US Schrade 51OT would cost on the auction sites. Works for me.

I also got a Taylor Schrade 5OT, which had a absurdly abrupt kink in the blade spine. I snorted, "Typical!" and took it down to the workshop, grabbed a file, and gave it the nice drop-point profile the original 5OTs were meant to have. Fun little project.

In any case, until the collective experience says otherwise, I'm viewing Taylor Schrade as a kind of Rough Rider: cheap and cheerful, as the Brits say, and an inexpensive way to try out a pattern that's too pricy if you seek for an original.

But I believe Taylor Schrade's making of old Schrade pattern knives is entirely legit from a trademark/patent point of view.
 
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