When you say "NO" to lending gear how do you reply to "Why not?"

G

Gadgetaholic

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I didn't want to clutter up this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716831

But when you are hiking and you realize that someone in your group is a moocher, borrowing this and that - it really gets annoying. Then when you set up camp he asks if he can borrow . . . . . . . from you, so you say "NO". Then his lip starts to quiver and he asks in a hurt voice "Why not?" - what do you reply?

I'll start with a few possibilities that I have thought of:

"If I bail you out when you come along ill equipped then how will you learn?"

"If you didn't pack it then you obviously can make do without it"

"What do you mean why? Since when did I need a reason to not lend YOU something that belongs to ME?"

"I paid for it, I'm carrying it - you could have bought one and carried it, but you didn't . . . Why?"

"I noticed you have been borrowing stuff from people all day - you need to learn to look after yourself, I ain't yo momma and I am not here to look after you"



Mentioned in the other thread was someone that 'borrowed' camp stove fuel, for that sort of thing you could reply:

"Why should I run out of fuel and have to eat cold food because you weren't smart enough to bring your own?"

"You brought a stove with you, but no fuel - exactly how dumb are you?"

"I have brought enough fuel to last me until the next town, I never thought to bring spare to supply other people"

"If you didn't bring fuel then you'll have to eat you food cold, you'll know better next time"



I should make it clear that I am not talking about someone that is well prepared but somehow managed to forget something or has somehow lost an important piece of gear. I am talking about a well organized long hiking trip where everyone going should be well aware of what gear is needed and what they are expected to bring with them (no guides, nothing provided - everyone brings what they need). Think about an obvious moocher, rather than a victim of bad luck. I am talking about a person that seems to be like this guy:
JSmith88 said:
On my section hike in 06 there was another UL hiker who was with our group who was notorious for this. Constantly wanting to borrow a knife, or a light, or batteries, or a hat, or everclear for his stove. It went on and on and on and on, and we luckily ended up ditching him around GSMNP in one of the towns. Made him think he had overslept and we had already left town, and so he started up the trail to catch up with us, and we stayed in town 2 more days so we could avoid him.
Click to expand...

Since most of us would quickly get effed off with a person like that and decide to tell him to go take a running jump rather than lend him something - the situation could arise where we get asked "why not?"

So what sort of replies would you guys give? Do you go with polite and tactful or do you go with another approach?
 
"I don't want you to $@&! it up" works for my more expensive stuff.

"I only brought enough for me" for expendable stuff.
 
It depends on how irritated I really am and that will depend on many things.

If they are clueless and don't catch on to the subtle hints leading to a low level hostility then I will eventually get POed enough to be very forthright.


male vs female and then (pretty vs ugly)
invited friend vs uninvited hanger on

and my generalized level of joy
fed, watered, rested, dry, unrushed, unhurt...



I worked with one fellow that would "borrow" money from every coworker
The story was that it was to feed , or diaper his infant, but he always had $ for cigarettes, beer,takeout food, new tires... and so on.
"borrow" was just code for give...we earned the same wage for the same work, but since he was the one to F his girlfriend I was of the opinion that I shouldn't have to feed and clothe his bastard.

When it was my turn to be asked for the "loan" I told him I had no money.
(ya I weaseled on that, but I was new on the job...)
He replied "Sure you do, you have $40 in your wallet"...I asked him how he knew that...he said "I checked"
...I was stunned
He opened my locker and rifled my street clothes to check and see how much money I had in my wallet...
I told him that I had to buy gas that day and he said "OK"
...
Looking back I was extremely ticked that I had to give a reason to him WHY I should keep MY OWN money...


If the person that I am currently dealing has that kind of attitude and reminds me of that situation, I am much more curt now than I was then... and wouldn't likely be spending time with them.

I am much more generous with those I choose to be with and care about
 
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I usually explain that my expensive gear, if it get's jacked up, it would come between any friendship.

If it is stuff that I can share - I share it - it is more about me than an asshole.

TF
 
First response = “no”
Second response = “just no”

No further responses will be given.

I'm exactly the same in all instances such as this because it is a manipulation game. Seldom does the person want to know the reason why not, what they are attempting to do is to manipulate me into giving a yes. I take no prisoners.

Why? Because I know darn well that when I'm trying to manipulate you the more you engage with me the stronger I get and the weaker you get. Retain your personal power and disengage with me as quickly as you can or I'm creeping on you. Everything you say offers me a handle or hook to get in. I prefer to think of it rather like a python. You give me a bit and I take up the slack. You back up a bit more, all the time feeding me ammunition and again I take up the slack. Sooner or later we are in a dialogue with all the norms of social convention that bind people and it will be even harder for you to break free. You may well give me what I want just to escape. Don't be offensive but be terse.

I offer exactly the same counsel to women – Guy asks if he can buy her a drink and she says no. He says why not? Game on. She, afraid of hurting his feelings or violating social norms that he is playing on offers some justification. Now she has a prat sat at the stool next to her being a pest. Avoid all that by cutting it off early - “just no”.

Same applies to aggressive street begging.

I fear offending nobody with this. My friends wouldn't be hurt by it. And persistent strangers I don't give a hoot about. They picked the wrong mfk to try that game on, no more, no less.
 
depends on who it is and what they wanted to borrow.

someone wants to borrow my camera: NO. it's my livelyhood, so bog off.

a knife: here's a clipper 860.

MY knife: Bog Off. here's a clipper 860.

tools: if i trust them, i'll let 'em use my tools at my house. they NEVER leave my garage. if i don't trust 'em then: "Because I Said NO, That's Why!"

fuel etc: i can be reasonably generous, depending on circumstance.


12345678910 said:
I worked with one fellow that would "borrow" money from every coworker
The story was that it was to feed , or diaper his infant, but he always had $ for cigarettes, beer,takeout food, new tires... and so on.
"borrow" was just code for give...we earned the same wage for the same work, but since he was the one to F his girlfriend I was of the opinion that I shouldn't have to feed and clothe his bastard.

When it was my turn to be asked for the "loan" I told him I had no money.
(ya I weaseled on that, but I was new on the job...)
He replied "Sure you do, you have $40 in your wallet"...I asked him how he knew that...he said "I checked"
...I was stunned
He opened my locker and rifled my street clothes to check and see how much money I had in my wallet...
I told him that I had to buy gas that day and he said "OK"
...
Looking back I was extremely ticked that I had to give a reason to him WHY I should keep MY OWN money...
Click to expand...

i think i would have punched his lights out. seriously, i would have thumped someone for that kind of behaviour.

i have a simple rule about loaning money. if i lend you $20 i'll ask when you will pay it back. if you don't pay it back by that day YOU nominated, i'm unlikely to ever lend you money again. in any case, don't you be coming to me to borrow any more until that is paid back.

if you don't pay me back, well, it's just cost me <$50 to find out that you're an A*****E. bargain. :thumbup:

i rarely, if ever, lend anyone more than $50 and the people i lend that amount too have all proven that they will pay it back pronto.
 
12345678910 said:
<snip>
I worked with one fellow that would "borrow" money from every coworker
The story was that it was to feed , or diaper his infant, but he always had $ for cigarettes, beer,takeout food, new tires... and so on.
"borrow" was just code for give...we earned the same wage for the same work, but since he was the one to F his girlfriend I was of the opinion that I shouldn't have to feed and clothe his bastard.

When it was my turn to be asked for the "loan" I told him I had no money.
(ya I weaseled on that, but I was new on the job...)
He replied "Sure you do, you have $40 in your wallet"...I asked him how he knew that...he said "I checked"
...I was stunned
He opened my locker and rifled my street clothes to check and see how much money I had in my wallet...
I told him that I had to buy gas that day and he said "OK"
...
Looking back I was extremely ticked that I had to give a reason to him WHY I should keep MY OWN money...

<snip>
Click to expand...


OMG!!!:eek::mad: I applaud you for your self control.If it'd a been me,that guy would've been missing some teeth!
The NERVE of some people!!:thumbdn:
 
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I very rarely head off into the mountains, woods for climbing, hiking and/or camping with people I don't know. the friends I head out with either have their own gear or I trust very much to use what ever I have. but most often they already have what ever they will need.
 
I avoid it all right off the bat and do a gear check with our crew before we head out, whoever doesnt have all that they need either doesnt come with us or goes and aquires the rest of his gear and meets up with us.

When my buddies ask me if they can borrow my knife i always tell them that they should have brought their own knife with them, and then instruct them on how to make a knife out of a stone because they arrent using mine.

...My biggest problem..never ask to use my ax...never ever, will i ever lend my ax to anyone. I will gladly do the work for them, but i will never loan my ax to anyone.

I dont care about offending anyone. For most things i will share what i have, as long as it isnt because of a completely preventable reason.
 
I agree on certain things I don't loan in the bush.

My knife, my axe, my pocket knife. Pretty much everything else is up for grabs to my buds. I have about 2 people I would let borrow my knife.

What is funny - I would let guys like TonyM, Magnussen, Ken, Doc, Pitdog, Walt Davis, Andy Roy, and a few others that I have never met borrow my blades before I let others that I know. Why? I know they respect knives and would not screw up my blade - if they did - they would take care of the issue.

TF
 
I rarely share gear. I dont get a "Why Not".............

Not a discussion when someone asked to borrow a nice item of mine. I dont normally respond with actual words. I am serious. Southerners have some well executed "Ummmmmm's" that can say alot with no actual words.

Dont respond to the first question and there wont be a "Why Not".

You could always ask "Why dont you invest in gear?"
 
My answer?
Well considering the type of person we're talking about, I just tell them that they said they didn't need it or could do without it, so deal with it.

The example that comes up most often is my e-tool. I hear all the same crap: "It's too heavy" or "I'll just make a digging stick". OK, Skippy. Remember this is for camping, and we'll be in place for a while, not trying to hoof it 70 miles a day. Pretty soon it becomes "Oh man, can I borrow that?" "Nope." "why not?" "Because you said it wasn't worth the weight, and you'd just use a digging stick. So, use a digging stick."


Had a guy pull the money thing like above. My response was"I don't lend money to co-workers. They always end up not paying me back, then I have to do the whole tracking down and breaking legs thing until I get paid back, and I just don't feel like putting in the jail time over $20 again." Never asked me again.
 
JTR357 said:
OMG!!!:eek::mad: I applaud you for your self control.If it'd a been me,that guy would've been missing some teeth!
The NERVE of some people!!:thumbdn:
Click to expand...

I already knew he was a mooch, but was totally surprised at the lengths he took that.

I'm not a violent or reactive person...no fighting experience

and

I'm a damned good size, but he was bigger..
and
he had that "Crazy Indian" thing going for him.

I once watched him smash a 3' section of a good sound 2x6" over his head repeatedly until it broke in half...and he giggled the whole time

...without a firearm I wouldn't have come out on the good end of that...
 
If I don't care about offending the person, a flat out refusal will do. If it's a friend I'll generally tell them I don't lend out equipment, but will be happy to bring said piece of equipment where it is needed and help them accomplish whatever needs doing. Anybody who knows me knows better than to ask for money. I've got none.
 
First response = &#8220;no&#8221;
Second response = &#8220;just no&#8221;

exactly.

although I know a very few folks who have access to anything I have if they need it.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Had a guy pull the money thing like above. My response was"I don't lend money to co-workers. They always end up not paying me back, then I have to do the whole tracking down and breaking legs thing until I get paid back, and I just don't feel like putting in the jail time over $20 again." Never asked me again.
Click to expand...

LOL - I like that response!


For a real life response that I have come across that I liked went like this:

Question: "can I borrow $x"
Answer: "I don't feel comfortable with lending money to friends/co-workers"

This doesn't really invite a lot of come back - how do you tell someone to do something that they have already told you they don't feel comfortable doing?

If they get asked "why not" they can simply say "I don't like the tension it causes or the potential to spoil friendships".

I really like this line of reasoning better than "I don't have any money" or "I can't afford it" or "I can't spare it". What if the person sees you blowing some money on something trivial after you said you didn't have any money? Better to just say you don't like to lend money and then do whatever you like with your own money without feeling guilty about lying.

There is always the nice short "I don't lend money". I like that in the way it is very short and simply says it isn't something you do - without feeling the need to justify why. A response to "why not" could be another short answer like "I just don't". If you think about it you really don't owe anyone an explanation of why you don't want to take your hard earned money and give it to them.
 
Kismet said:
First response = “no”
Second response = “just no”

exactly.

although I know a very few folks who have access to anything I have if they need it.
Click to expand...

Me too, that's why I know friends of mine would never be bothered. Cooperation, reciprocation and all those good things are second nature. Plus I'm aware that I sometimes have access to resources that others don't for whatever reason, and certainly others often have access to resources and skills that I don't. Although I may have come across as mean in this thread the context required it – how do you say no [when you believe someone is trying to manipulate you]? Under those circumstances I keep my powder dry. Amongst my friends I'm just as likely to give it to you than lend it to you. I just don't take shit when a game is clearly laid out to try to force me to behave in ways favorable to the originators objectives. Nobody I care about would try to do that to me. :-)
 
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