When you say "NO" to lending gear how do you reply to "Why not?"

As other people have said, first thing is to make sure you're travelling with people who know what they're doing and have the right gear for the trip. If there are inexperienced people coming along then you should be proactive about helping them. Ask them in advance whether they've got whatever you consider necessary for the trip, and if they don't then tell them they've got to get it before they come along.

Obviously there are some situations where you find yourself in the company of people you didn't have the chance to check out before the trip. In that case, if you really don't want to lend someone something the best solution is to ask what they need it for, and then help them with whatever task it is yourself. If its something that you need for yourself and you only have one of, like a rain jacket or limited fuel etc., then the best response is the honest one ie. "sorry mate, I've only got one and I need it."

The thing I don't do is just say "No" or come up with smartarse lines which leave a bad atmosphere and create tension in the group. The person asking you may be a complete dickhead etc., but can you be absolutely sure you may not end up relying on that person for something in the future? As unlikely as it may seem at the time when some unprepared person is asking to borrow your knife, matches etc., you may end up needing that person's help and if you've pissed them off unneccesarily by being a jerk they'll be that much less likely to give you the help you need. Doesn't mean you hand out your vital equipment, but you shouldn't be a jerk about it when you refuse either.
 
My last camping trip was a bit of a surprise to me. On my way out of church one Sunday morning, I was stopped and asked to go along on a 2 night hike. They (two guys) were leaving in 3 hours and I live about 35 mins away from church where they were departing from at the predetermined time. I said I could not leave with them due to some family complications but that I would meet up with them the next morning at the first overnight location. Since I did not have much experience, I finished up my family stuff and then started packing what I had. I was using mostly my brother's stuff since he is now permanently disabled. I was really unsure on what to take, so I took almost everything except cookware and a heavy sleeping bag. Took more knives than I would have ever needed, an ax that came in handy, folding saw and sharpening supplies. My pack after the trip (no water, no food left) was 55 lbs. I was way out of shape and really sucking wind on inclines and declines. When I got home, I immediately started looking where I could save weight from the gear I took along and trying to up the cardio in my life. I might have loaned stuff out just to save weight.

To answer the question of the thread, I offer to sell the equipment in question for cash rather than loan it. That usually ends the conversation. If they persist, I just say no.
 
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12345678910 said:
...He replied "Sure you do, you have $40 in your wallet"...I asked him how he knew that...he said "I checked"...I was stunned
He opened my locker and rifled my street clothes to check and see how much money I had in my wallet...
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He'd get a trip to the emergency room right then and there - I have no time for that sort of individual...

I lend to people that I care about - once. After that they learn to get their own kit and use it properly (more than willing to show them how) or they do without.

Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day - set a man on fire and you keep him worm for the rest of his life...:D




blake
 
This topic seems to be centered around hiking trips with "the guys." Since it is hypothetical, lets add other possibilities we are leaving out.

For example:

-What if this "mooch" was a beautiful young lady (18-26 years old) with big, ahem "desirables" and she found comfort in asking you for the things that she forgot.

Add the opposite sex and physical attraction and I am sure that most of us would be a lot kinder to this "person" than the other "someone" that this thread has been referring to. For the most part am with those of you who would teach your male friends a lesson, or at least hold out on them a little so they understand the significance of their mistake.

I would surely share my sleeping bag with this hypothetical lady if she forgot hers, and you can be assured that it would payback in full:D:thumbup:

There have been more than a few occasions where this worked out car camping, but I have never found very many cute girls that like to backpack, and when you do find that combo, they are usually very prepared:(.:D
 
The Government said:
For example:

-What if this "mooch" was a beautiful young lady (18-26 years old) with big, ahem "desirables" and she found comfort in asking you for the things that she forgot.
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That's a VERY different situation - I still wouldn't lend my expensive knife, but I WOULD be more generous with helping her with whatever needed cutting - especially if she were willing to reciprocate and help me with my needs . . .

Of course if she wanted to use me for doing whatever she wanted but wouldn't let me use her in return then I might give up and stop helping her. But if she is nice to me then I am VERY happy to be nice to her. There is nothing wrong with fair & equitable exchanging of 'favours'.
 
The Government said:
This topic seems to be centered around hiking trips with "the guys." Since it is hypothetical, lets add other possibilities we are leaving out.

For example:

-What if this "mooch" was a beautiful young lady (18-26 years old) with big, ahem "desirables" and she found comfort in asking you for the things that she forgot.

Add the opposite sex and physical attraction and I am sure that most of us would be a lot kinder to this "person" than the other "someone" that this thread has been referring to. For the most part am with those of you who would teach your male friends a lesson, or at least hold out on them a little so they understand the significance of their mistake.

I would surely share my sleeping bag with this hypothetical lady if she forgot hers, and you can be assured that it would payback in full:D:thumbup:

There have been more than a few occasions where this worked out car camping, but I have never found very many cute girls that like to backpack, and when you do find that combo, they are usually very prepared:(.:D
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Hypothetical because I am monogamous at this point but exactly the same.

It's the same response because the principle is the same. The only difference is where he tried to leech off me by using the hurt child appealing to a nurturing parent mechanism she is using the possibility of sexual availability appealing to lusty porkswordsman. If anything, I'm even more aware of that kind of leech using that kind of method to fleece me. It has a long and conspicuous history. Hell, I think there are even movies about it.

“I would surely share my sleeping bag with this hypothetical lady if she forgot hers, and you can be assured that it would payback in full”

That confounds it. If she wants to debase herself like that for a few meager resources then cool. But that's a different can of worms. Something has been exchanged. It is a transaction.
 
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LOL -you are right that is a transaction. If there was nothing in return and they kept mooching I would probably never hike with them again.

Maybe you could turn the situation with a male into a transaction -make them set up the tents, build the fire, clear the camping area, clean it up after, etc. Then they can borrow some things...?
 
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Like most here, I tend to have more, better gear then the people I'm out with. I guess I've just sort of accepted it and either just let them borrow what they need or do the task for them if it requires gear I don't want them screwing up.

One thing where this his been pushed too far with me is my trailer. I have a nice 30ft toy hauler RV trailer and I've had people that I've invited on trips treat it like it's a hotel and I'm their butler, not offering to help out with the setup\breakdown\general organization and cleanup. It's actually cost me a few friends, or I guess cost them would be a better way to put it.
 
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sambo. said:
"Because I Said NO, That's Why!"
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As an adult, I feel like the above statement is the extent of me explaining to any other adult why I said no. I would hope that there wouldn't need to be any further discussion on why I said no, because I get very impatient with stupid people. :D
 
because I depend on my limited skills and gear......enough said!!!!! they don't like they know what they can do.....
 
I really don't like the rude approach - as has been mentioned there is always the potential for you to need someone's help. With some good replies here and thinking about the situation (I find it better to anticipate the situation and decide what to do ahead of time) this is my favoured approach at the moment:
"Can I borrow your knife?"
"No, I don't lend out my gear"
"Why not?"
"I've had too many problems in the past, gear damaged, arguments started, major hassles - so now I've decided to save myself a lot of grief and just not let others borrow my gear"

However this may not be quite the right way to go if there are others in you group that you may happily lend gear to during the hike, but a subtle change in phrasing and you are good:
"Can I borrow your knife?"
"No, I only lend my gear to family or people that I know I can trust to treat my gear as well as I would and to pay for any damage"
"Why not me, I wouldn't break it?"
"Well, I have had people misuse my gear in the past, so I make it a firm policy to not trust anyone until I know them well enough to feel OK about them using my gear - I just don't know you well enough"

Of course by the time you know that person well enough they would have had plenty of time to start carrying their own knife - and if they don't the deerhunter video gives a good example of what you can say to them!

One thing to remember is that persistence and whining should NEVER be rewarded by you backing down - what would that teach your child, er I mean the moocher! You need to firmly state that you wont lend your gear and a quick reason why (if required) then that is that!

If the conversation goes:
"Can I borrow your knife?"
"NO!"
"Why not?"
"Because I don't lend my knife!"
"Pleeeeeeese"
"Oh, OK"
Then you deserve to have your knife abused and blunted.

If you don't want to lend your knife you can be as nice and polite as you like, but don't back down - gentle but firm, like an iron hand in a velvet glove! If you say no then you should mean no - otherwise you'll waste hours with some idiot trying to get you to change your mind.
 
I almost always keep an extra knife to loan. Normally I ask what it is they are doing and if I can help. But loan my favorite gear to some a** clown? Not hardly. It has been proven that common is the least common of senses. One camp site my big hawk scabbarb was used by a drunk as a backing to cut something. He must of had a sharp knife because it went right through one side of it. What a tool.
 
sitka said:
One camp site my big hawk scabbarb was used by a drunk as a backing to cut something. He must of had a sharp knife because it went right through one side of it. What a tool.
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That is a good reason not to lend stuff - the person might be a giant tool with no respect for the property of others! Unless you KNOW that the person will look after anything they borrow and replace anything they damage then just say NO!
 
Q: "Can I borrow your chainsaw?"

A: "Can I borrow your wife?"

Never had any further arguments.
 
If its a knife or tool, I generally ask if I can help, but won't lend. If its to cook food, I will offer to do the cooking for them ONCE. If its money, it depends on the person. I am known to carry an extra knife or two in my pack. Usually an Opinel and Mora. If it is someone I know and trust, or someone in dire need I will give it with no intention of ever seeing it again. Generally camping I won't give anything to strangers who just wander through. I often look at those questions as a prelude to seeing what they can TAKE. I have encountered this more often car camping than on a trail or unimproved camping.
 
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