When you say "NO" to lending gear how do you reply to "Why not?"

I worked with one fellow that would "borrow" money from every coworker
The story was that it was to feed , or diaper his infant, but he always had $ for cigarettes, beer,takeout food, new tires... and so on.
"borrow" was just code for give...we earned the same wage for the same work, but since he was the one to F his girlfriend I was of the opinion that I shouldn't have to feed and clothe his bastard.

This is where you do him a favour and allow him to learn to take care of his own problems. If he is spending money on beer & cigarettes and then asking for handouts then any shortage of money is his problem and a problem of his own making at that.

In the past I have used the "sorry I don't have any money" line, but in the future I will try to 'man up' and just say "sorry I don't lend money to friends" or something similar. Whether I have the money to lend or not isn't really the point is it?
 
First response = “no”

Why not?

Second response = “just no”

Ah common, are you serious?

Third (and final) response = "Yes, because anyone not smart enough to make sure he brought the proper equipment, is not smart enough to be trusted with mine and this discussion is over.
 
I go backpacking with the same guys every year. My one friend is not a gear junkie and doesn't have all the equipment. So before we head out I make sure he gets his share of the community gear and also make sure that he has stuff that he would otherwise borrow from me. The only good thing is that if he forgets, he goes without, so I don't have to worry about it.

I do have friends that I mountain bike with that didn't want to carry a camelbak because it slowed them down and made their back sweaty. One guy asked my to carry his jacket because it was now too hot and he didn't have a place to carry it himself. :eek: Now I'm one for helping out my fellow biker, loaned out chain tools, tire levers, pump and have given away tubes, but I won't be somebody's sag wagon because they can't carry their own gear.
 
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P.S. Seriously, if he's going to beg and whine, if he's going to act like a child, he should be treated like a child.
 
I lent a guy my knife once. I assumed he was going to cut something with it. Instead he dug up a root. This knife was honed to a razors edge when I gave it to him, it was dull when I got it back. Wrecked. Way to dull for the little stone I had with me to fix on the spot. So now I don't lend anyone my knife without knowing what they intend to do with it. I'll lend out my other stuff. It's just stuff. No reason to let stuff ruin a friendship.

Of course, I don't hang out with phucktards who aren't prepared to be in the woods. I usually make sure anyone I'm hiking or fishing with has the essentials. Quick gear check before heading out for day hikes. Actual check list for longer trips. But in the end it's just stuff.
 
it depends upon what your skill level is, and what your friend is.

Bill Siegle went on a trip in Snoqualmie Wilderness years ago with some other buddies of mine, and my SF buddy and i met them out at a remote lake - this is probably five or six years ago - we must be getting old, brother bill.

well, i treat my gear pretty lightly, and we were out roughing it doing sort of a Bug Out camping trip while our lovely families stayed back by the Sound, so all i had was a carpenters hatchet - brand new - a big knife, a tarp, and some food, a blanket and clothes, pretty much - plus my white coyote dog that can catch anything, so we weren't going to starve if TSHTF. it has been hard to wrestle a squirrel from her on occasion though - she usually runs off with the first one.

anyways,

it was cold and wet, but just an outstanding trip with excellent company, spread out over the woods along this great lake - my SF buddy had to cool off from the pressures of life, and asked if he could borrow my Vaughn Carpenters Hatchet - anyone outside of that camp i woulda probably told to go to Hell, but you know how us vets, etc. are.

Army SF guy comes back at the end of the day with this pitiful hound dog look on his face and my neck-broken hatchet. - he over worked it, ya just can't try to kill a wood handle with a neck like the diameter of your thumb, right?

(BTW - this should shed some light on why i make endo-/exo-skeletal composite tomahawk handles today - not for me as much as for the brutes out there, glad they are on our side).

i did the meanest thing possible. i laughed at him mercillessly. and made sure that all the Marines and Sailors in attendance got a load of the genius from the Army.

the only thing that could've been better is if brother siegle busted the hatchet - then i coulda made up a great big whopping sob story/lie and maybe weaseled a Siegle knife outta him - LOL.

Siegle knives absolutely rock IMHO.

.........

'lesson is - i reckon that we all had enough skills there to go into the wilderness naked, but it sure would've been nice to have the gear i brought. - but if i'd lost a buddy, when i could've at least lent him my hatchet, i think i'd be sucking pretty hard.

have the skills to go seemingly-unprepared gear-wise into the wilderness - it makes going into the wilderness over-prepared even more enjoyable, especially after little mishaps like i have described.

also - if you can manage it, just as with SCUBA, a buddy check can be good, before heading into the wild.

we were travelling far from home on the Snoqualmie Trip, so i didn't have much spare gear to share, but if you are near home or have something extra, don't act like you can tell the future - loan out what you can afford to - for me that's usually just about everything, i've been banging around the planet on the cheap for a long time though.

.......

i was backpacking in Utah once and heard some folks nearby talking in Swiss German about this guy's bad back and that the mat he brought wasn't cutting it and maybe they should quit and go to San Diego (where i lived at the time) - i walked over to their camp respectfully with my mat and handed it to the woman along with my phone number and my house watchers' number and asked her to take the mat for her husband and if they wanted, to stay in my house in Coronado - you could tell they were salt-of-the-earth types, it was a good bet on my part.

they both just about cried on the spot - i was their angel, which was great.
....so i was on the road for another couple weeks, and i just got some good folks to watch my house for free essentially, and they were going back to meet up with a bunch of my buddies in San Diego so they wouldn't be strangers and all for a cheapo Wal Mart mat that i didn't really need anyways.

well, i get home a few weeks later, ...and there they are in my house - which is a dump BTW - and everything is cleaned spotless by the swiss woman, the fridge is re-stocked with gourmet beers and food - turns out the husband was a gourmet chef, and he cooked for us for the next week, all 5 Star food, it was so embarassing, i wasn't even allowed to wash the dishes. - then when they were getting ready to go, they realized they had some extra stuff from the trip, all REI super-tents and new mats, and you name it - i gave them an old beat up Navy Sea Bag to pop it in, but it still didn't all fit, so they gave it to me - this is stuff that's worth hundreds of dollars now. - plus the gourmet food. - plus, they demand that my family and i come visit them in Bern every year.


....all for a stinking 6 clam Wal Mart foam mat.


....so Hell yeah, i loan my gear.

do it with a light heart. - i think that last part is very important to shape the outcome.


screw it, here ya go.

and yes, you can eat bacon-wrapped, crab-stuffed Filet Mignon three days in a row for brunch and ask for seconds....

My Goodness, that was pleasurable.


HTH.

vec
 
I very rarely head off into the mountains, woods for climbing, hiking and/or camping with people I don't know. the friends I head out with either have their own gear or I trust very much to use what ever I have. but most often they already have what ever they will need.

ditto.
 
Compassion should count for something. Not all situations are alike. Thus, I will do my best to consider each situation individually even if I have been known to be a hothead. I know how much I appreciate others when I didn't cover all of my bases so I'll try to do something that will let me help without hurting my physical integrity while not sacrificing my moral integrity. It is possible to do this. I won't accept abuse, however. Probably to best way to sum it up can be partially found in James 1:19. The other half of the summary is found, of course, in John 3:16.
 
Could I remind everyone that this thread is not about what to say when your best bud wants to borrow something - it is about when some moocher (maybe a friend of a friend) wants to borrow something and you say "NO" because you have recognized him as a moocher and perpetual borrower.

If someone asks to borrow something and you say "YES" then that is something different to what we are talking about here.

I will lend some things to some people some of the time - but someone that heads into the wilderness with other people and expects to just borrow anything he doesn't bother to take is MUCH different to someone that just forgot his lighter (or whatever).
 
I always have 2 moras in the car on the way to the TH. When I get there, I make sure everyone has a knife, so i can get the knife-mooching taken care of up font. That way, if someone asks to borrow my blade, I can just tell them to use their own.
 
I very rarely head off into the mountains, woods for climbing, hiking and/or camping with people I don't know. the friends I head out with either have their own gear or I trust very much to use what ever I have. but most often they already have what ever they will need.

That may be true in your case - but sometimes friends are going somewhere good and ask if you are keen, you say "hell, yeah - that sounds great". Then you find out that there are a couple of guys tagging along that are friends of one of your friends. You are easy going and decide to go with the flow, but on the first day you realize that one of your friend's friends is a dick! He hasn't seemed to bring a bunch of stuff that you would expect anyone to bring for the hiking you are doing and you think "WTH?". Then setting up camp this jerk asks if he can borrow your expensive knife that you love more than life itself (well, maybe more than his life anyway). Of course you are going to say "NO freakin' way", but this guy doesn't understand why he shouldn't be able to borrow the knife of someone that he barely knows! Hell, he only wants to pry out a few rocks from the ground to make his nights sleep less uncomfortable and your big Busse could easily handle prying a few rocks, surely!

Obviously there are lots of things you can say when he asks why you wont let him borrow your knife:
"Dude, this is a four hundred dollar knife - I don't let anyone else use it, ever!"
"I don't lend knives, they always end up damaged"
"On these trips every that comes along is always expected to make do with whatever they brought with them"
"Lending my gear is something that I just don't do"
"Sorry dude, but I don't know you well enough to trust you with my stuff"
"I have my reasons!"
"Anyone that goes hiking poorly equipped isn't the sort of person I want to trust with my gear"


Of course you try to ensure that you are with a group that you like and can trust, but sometimes someone that you don't know is sprung on you - but that doesn't mean that you have to like them and take care of their needs & wants.
 
[/QUOTE]Of course you try to ensure that you are with a group that you like and can trust, but sometimes someone that you don't know is sprung on you - but that doesn't mean that you have to like them and take care of their needs & wants.[/QUOTE]


No it doesn't mean that you should take care of their needs and wants. But it's still complicated isn't it? Have you encountered this situation often enough for it to be a real problem for you? I haven't. Let's say that I encounter that exact situation. Couldn't I ask about the need and then help come up with a better solution. Maybe I can use my awesome knife to sharpen a digging stick. Would that give me an opportunity to talk to him about what kind of gear should be carried? Maybe he really is that clueless and doesn't realize how much he is imposing on others. Maybe he does, in which case it can be seen as abuse of a relationship and can be grounds for a flat out refusal. if that is the case, I have my honest answer for him. I'm not going to use inflammatory language as long as I manage to keep my wits and my temper in check.
 
A guy at work one time asked to see the expensive folder on my belt. I took it out, opened it, and handed it to him. Then he started to use the point to tighten some kind of screw on his watchband! I hollered a "NO!" and demanded my knife back which he returned with a hurt look. He was a lot more hurt when I roundly cussed him out, said bad things about his ancestors, and told him he was an idiot and to stay to hell away from me unless it was job related. Damn! I hate people who abuse tools. I had a Leatherman in my pocket with a fine tip screwdriver but, no, he was going to use my folder point. @#$%!! He was one of the jerks I put on rattlesnake abatement patrol during out next test at White Sands. I was sorry he didn't get bit.
 
Have you encountered this situation often enough for it to be a real problem for you?

Let's just say that I have encountered the type of person that wants to borrow stuff to avoid buying it themselves - leeching off others as a cost saving measure. It wasn't in a wilderness situation - but it did alert me to the presence of that sort of person. Now days I would be more cautious and would recognize that sort of person quicker.

Personally I don't like to be rude or nasty to people - but I don't like being made use of either. If you explain that you have had bad experiences in the past and as a result have made a personal policy of not lend out your gear then you are saying it isn't personal and is nothing against them - but you don't like lending your gear out. In a group this would generally mean that he moocher will go bother someone else and leave you alone. If he goes and annoys his friend that invited him then it might help to ensure he doesn't get invited next time. It takes a lot to get me to lose my temper but that doesn't mean that I can't get pissed off quickly - especially when I recognize a user.

If you have never come across a person that tries to use others around them by borrowing stuff and/or asking favours then you are lucky - those people really get my goat. I can recall several of that sort of person that I have come across over the last few decades. Thankfully they are a very small percentage of people that I have known and almost everyone is much better than that to be around.

Apart from those I have met there are also others that I have heard of - some that I have read about on these forums (and other forums) and some that I have been told about by friends & family. I can recall a story about a neighbour of my grandfather (he was a cabinet maker by trade) that borrowed a power tool (a drill or a sander I think) and worked it hard, burning out the motor. I would rather buy my own power tools and then if I burn out the motor that is my problem - no hard feelings between me as another person. I would also rather other people bought there own power tools and didn't wreck mine.

I think that when you are younger you worry about offending someone by refusing a request. When you get older you welcome the opportunity to tell someone that they can't borrow your tools - then if they won't have anything to do with you because you wouldn't let them use your stuff, you know they are a person that you are happy not to be friends with. None of my friends are friends with me for stuff I have that they can borrow or as a source of money to borrow or free labour or a free ride to the airport - and no one that is looking for things like that from a friend (rather than friendship) are welcome as friends of mine. Of course if a genuine friend needs a hand then that is a different story - friends help each other out. The friend that helps you move house is someone that you will happily offer a ride to the airport to, whereas the person that never talks to you unless they need something . . . well they can go jump up their own @rse for all I care.
 
Very true my friend. thank god my friends don't keep those kind of friends. I guess I'm lucky because my friends don't seem to have other friends that find taking off into the woods or mountains for the weekend/week interesting. if they only knew! :)

That may be true in your case - but sometimes friends are going somewhere good and ask if you are keen, you say "hell, yeah - that sounds great". Then you find out that there are a couple of guys tagging along that are friends of one of your friends. You are easy going and decide to go with the flow, but on the first day you realize that one of your friend's friends is a dick! He hasn't seemed to bring a bunch of stuff that you would expect anyone to bring for the hiking you are doing and you think "WTH?". Then setting up camp this jerk asks if he can borrow your expensive knife that you love more than life itself (well, maybe more than his life anyway). Of course you are going to say "NO freakin' way", but this guy doesn't understand why he shouldn't be able to borrow the knife of someone that he barely knows! Hell, he only wants to pry out a few rocks from the ground to make his nights sleep less uncomfortable and your big Busse could easily handle prying a few rocks, surely!

Obviously there are lots of things you can say when he asks why you wont let him borrow your knife:
"Dude, this is a four hundred dollar knife - I don't let anyone else use it, ever!"
"I don't lend knives, they always end up damaged"
"On these trips every that comes along is always expected to make do with whatever they brought with them"
"Lending my gear is something that I just don't do"
"Sorry dude, but I don't know you well enough to trust you with my stuff"
"I have my reasons!"
"Anyone that goes hiking poorly equipped isn't the sort of person I want to trust with my gear"


Of course you try to ensure that you are with a group that you like and can trust, but sometimes someone that you don't know is sprung on you - but that doesn't mean that you have to like them and take care of their needs & wants.
 
First response = “no”

Why not?

Second response = “just no”

Ah common, are you serious?

Third (and final) response = "Yes, because anyone not smart enough to make sure he brought the proper equipment, is not smart enough to be trusted with mine and this discussion is over.

Absolutely serious. In this instance I am especially serious for the reasons I have already given - It is a manipulation game.

Further, to cannibalize some song lyrics; “I recognize the weapons, I've practiced them well, I fitted them myself”. Cougar Allen was on the nose with; “if he's going to beg and whine, if he's going to act like a child, he should be treated like a child”. It's exactly what baby creatures do, feign or exaggerate; “look at my poorly wing”, and mummy bird gets suckered into offering it an extra potion of worms to which it was not entitled. We tend to forgive it in the young but it is an insufferable trait in adults. The so called Pester Power, so loved by marketers, is something I am especially resistant to no matter who is doing it.

Broadening it out beyond the manipulation aspect it just accords with how I prefer things anyway, and it cuts both ways:

“you can have that if you want it”
“are you sure?”
“yeah, have it”
“thanks mate”

That's an opposite and ideal situation as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to be hearing; “are you sure?”, “are you really really sure?”, “are you truly really really certain you are sure?”. That makes me think I'm either dealing with an idiot with a comprehension disorder or they think I'm one that needs nannying. Either way I want to retract the offer. It's intellectual potty-time and “try anyway”.

I guess I just like functional and effective people. To deviate for a moment I'll end with an anecdote in illustration: I'm standing with two guys I don't know very well and guy #1 says to guy #2; “you weren't around earlier so I wrote you a note”. He then grabs the note [that is obviously not time sensitive] and proceeds to start reading it out. Guy #2 reaches out, plucks the note from him, folds it up and puts it in his pocket whilst saying, “that's one of the advantages of writing it down”. Guy #1 looked a little surprised. I took that as a big clue about the personality of guy #2. I was right. I now fairly regularly meet up with him for a smoke.

Anyway, I'm dredging up anecdotes now so that tells me it is time to exit.
 
Like Cougar Allen posted. I often give a hearty "Because I'm Mean" or a simple "Because I don't like you".
Honestly, I try to bring extra essentials (I car camp more than anything) because sometimes stuff just happens and I like to help people who need it.
 
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