Where are Custom Handmade knives headed in 2016...? 2017

I know a lot of these makers that make what is being described as big clunky folders

I may not like that genre of knives but I like the guys making them and yes it is true the majority of people buying these knives truly do not understand how impractical they are but and this is a BIG BuT as long as they are bringing money into the game and helping the world of custom knives I am all for it

When they realize 2 pound folders are really not that useful and if the supposed bubble ever bursts these makers can produce what ever interests the newer buying crowd ....... The circle goes on which is good for all of us

Over built does not have to be a paper weight

Just look at what DISKIN USA new flipper demonstrates

But if the newer buying crowd digs the larger what many of us would refer to as clunky that's awesome and more power to them

As for the Big South Western Bowies

There will always be a market for them

I do see the attention going slightly to the less ornate and more performance oriented ....... Either way there is room for it all

Especially right before the Blade show :)

I could not agree more. it seems like it is rare for people to like knives in today's world especially quality knives, so I am all for any type of knife even if I think it is silly. from what I saw last year at Blade the Diskin flippers were built just right :D

Edit: I have also seen Stabman post some legit reasons on the use of a folder with a 7 inch blade. but that might just be Stabman :D
 
A lot of people have been waiting for "the bubble to burst." They have been wrong since the late 20th century.

The constant parade of ABS ennui-inducing bowies on this forum is proof of its basic bias. The fighting Bowie is just as much a fantasy knife as an American tanto or sci-fi blade. The trouble is the traditional forge crowd believes they are higher class.

Some of us actually carry and use those "fantasy ABS style bowies" on at least a semi regular basis.......not in urban environments perhaps, but not everyone lives in the city and works in a high rise office building.
If it's got an edge, and someone likes it, it is legit.......no matter what the panel of popular pundits pontificate:D

Darcy
 
there is and always will be a wide spectrum, and every person's understanding of where a knife specifically lands on that spectrum is unique to each individual, subject to their own understanding and knowledge of where the ends of the spectrum are. Some individual spectrum are narrow, some are wide, some fall in between. A spectrum of spectrum!

Broad categorization is a simplistic view of the world which our convenience loving lizard brains easily slip into. Quick and simple assessment was crucial when our lizard brain ruled, but as we evolve, the requirement to pursue nuance is becoming more critical as we add more complexity to our existence.

Cronk's best known work was not utilitarian, but experiential- it had/has impact which appeals to the senses more immediately than the brain, and the brain is intrigued, but has to catch up in order to achieve full appreciation. He and his work's impact ripples in ways that range from obvious to invisible. Is there a Cronk of the specifically heavily overbuilt, single locking blade folder category? Is there even a way to know yet? It is a very new category, from what I understand, and there is no crystal ball to tells us whether it will wither on the vine, or produce fruit.

I think that a lot of the 'sense oriented' work that we are seeing points to a rapid growth in appreciation among new knife enthusiasts for custom/handmade cutlery. For a guy to make the jump from thinking his $50 Kershaw is the best thing ever, to justifying to himself a $250 Zero Tolerance is worth the money, and then paying aftermarket price for a knife made by the designer is a significant thing. Especially when it happens over a course of a couple of years.

Joe said it really well; this growing investment by a growing population in cutlery in general has caused rapid change and also reinvigorated the market. I don't know what the statistics are, but I have a feeling the industry in general is trending upward.

I suppose it's best to keep an open mind, especially if one always wants to be right ;) But sometimes it's hard seeing a lot of people overly enthusiastic about something which I personally find is stupid. I feel that way about a lot of things, but I have to remind myself that each person's understanding of these things differs from my own, and it's not my job to convince them of where I think these things lie in a spectrum. My job is to embrace change and to be free and happy :)

It will be interesting to see where things go, but it's also fun to engage in a little mental masturbation from time to time :)
 
Last edited:
Joe said it really well; this growing investment by a growing population in cutlery in general is going to cause rapid change but also reinvigorate the market.
What part of the knife market do you think need to be reinvigorated?

Chuck
 
I edited my last rambling statement in response to the good point that Chuck made
 
Last edited:
I submit that BIG Exquisite damascus and fileworked Bowies which we all admire, with all their ivory and finery are AS MUCH OF A CARICATURE of a useful knife than these all metal folders.

Amen to this. Between the 2lb metal tactical folders and the gorgeous big bowies, I honestly think customs and handmades will never be as "practical" as anyone wants them to be purely because they're pretty and expensive.
 
If chunky funky folders are engaging a thousand NEW faces to Custom Knives why would you wish for them to be done with?

I submit that BIG Exquisite damascus and fileworked Bowies which we all admire, with all their ivory and finery are AS MUCH OF A CARICATURE of a useful knife than these all metal folders.
Coop

Amen to this. Between the 2lb metal tactical folders and the gorgeous big bowies, I honestly think customs and handmades will never be as "practical" as anyone wants them to be purely because they're pretty and expensive.

I agree, if a particular type or style of custom knife is increasing interest and bringing more collectors into the community then it's all good in my opinion. No one's forcing anyone to buy a knife they don't care for. Creativity, versatility in design and varying tastes are good for custom knives.

The second point would depend on an individual's definition of what's "useful" or considered "practical". If you are of the opinion that cutting/chopping is the only way a custom knife can be "useful" or "practical" then perhaps.
 
The bubble will burst some day...likely, sooner rather than later. I see MORE different, and LESS repeat show goers at The Gathering every year. The "kids" are not educating themselves in an overall sense, they are like idiot savants...they know their favorite makers, but many of them are clueless to even BASIC knife terminology and concepts....they look at ATS-34 as if it were mystery metal, and probably couldn't work a backlock knife if life depended upon it. They understand "flavor of the month"....and they have no patience. They do seem to have money....and a short attention span.

brownshoe said:
A lot of people have been waiting for "the bubble to burst." They have been wrong since the late 20th century.

Do you think it's beginning to burst already?

Look at the sale forums... Ansos near makers price... GTC near makers price... Terzuolas going unsold at 800, 900, 1000 dollars... people selling their Lightfoots, Elishewitz, Kirby Lamberts, Pohan Leus, Marfiones below makers price... even makers thought untouchable like Southard and Sibert among others have taken a hit... you can't sell a folder by "Tuffthumbz" or "Will Moon" these days either. Lots of unsold knives and knives marked down to sell everywhere. Tons of seemingly stagnant inventory at the major custom knife online dealers.

If the bubble does burst who will be the losers? Do you think these price drops will continue? Will much of the greed spurred interest in these custom knives evaporate once knives begin to depreciate as soon as they are purchased? What does a situation like this mean for these dealers' unsold inventory and collectors who stand to lose thousands of dollars? What might that situation mean for the makers of these knives?
 
^^^^ Well stated. good observation. I agree and understand. That's the DOWNSIDE to the growth upside.

The difference may be that the market is finding a correction, and hopefully not a collapse. It is the collapse fear which would drive negative vibes. But is the sky really falling?

Secondly: Nicely designed, useful knives with smart materials will always find a home. However, they are like the Honda Accord of the industry.

Our collector base (especially attracting new younger faces) are excitement based. The want the Dodge Hellcat and the turbo STI.

Classic knives are like Buicks to them. A solid market among us older, but not exciting enough for them.

Yet. We hope. Therein lies the unknown forecast.

Coop
 
Do you think it's beginning to burst already?

Look at the sale forums... Ansos near makers price... GTC near makers price... Terzuolas going unsold at 800, 900, 1000 dollars... people selling their Lightfoots, Elishewitz, Kirby Lamberts, Pohan Leus, Marfiones below makers price... even makers thought untouchable like Southard and Sibert among others have taken a hit... you can't sell a folder by "Tuffthumbz" or "Will Moon" these days either. Lots of unsold knives and knives marked down to sell everywhere. Tons of seemingly stagnant inventory at the major custom knife online dealers.

I do think the market is beginning to correct itself.

It is hard to make sweeping pronouncements....I have seen Tom Mayo Knives shoot up, and go back down THREE TIMES in the last 15 years....same with Ken Onion knives. In the beginning of that cycle, about 2000-2001, there were TWO collectors having significant effect on "high end" tactical knives. One of them is a Financial Manager named Grant Wells(sp?). He recently showed up in the game again a few years ago, and significantly effected the top prices that Rexford knives were getting.

Sometimes because the market is so small, two or three collectors can send extreme ripples in the market that effect all interested in that maker or genre. If they are snapping up everything that they can get....get in line, and have a hefty chunk of change in your wallet or you cannot even play....OR....show savvy and patience....you MIGHT get lucky.

Maker price is not always a good indicator of value. Some do not stay aware of aftermarket effects on their work(rare these days) and undervalue. Some look at aftermarket price and try to get ahead of it.....that doesn't really work and when the market corrects....it leaves the makers who don't/can't correct the prices looking desperate.

If the bubble does burst who will be the losers? Do you think these price drops will continue? Will much of the greed spurred interest in these custom knives evaporate once knives begin to depreciate as soon as they are purchased? What does a situation like this mean for these dealers' unsold inventory and collectors who stand to lose thousands of dollars? What might that situation mean for the makers of these knives?


WHEN the bubble bursts, the losers will be:

1. The collectors that don't see the ebb and flow, who come in when it is all sunshine and flowers, and who are playing with money they don't have. This happened most significantly in the late '80's to early '90's with heavily engraved interframe locking folders....some of which were originally priced well north of $10,000.00 and now can be had for maybe $2,500.00. You just don't really see those pieces discussed anymore, it's like a dirty little secret.

2. The makers who got into it thinking all that they had to do was make this or that pattern and life would be milk and honey forever more. Sorry, it doesn't work that way, and there are always more "losers" than "winners". Some of the guys mentioned already should be fine in the long run..Ansos, GTC, Terzuola, Lightfoots, Elishewitz, Kirby Lambert's, Pohan Leu and Marfione.

Gus is just getting started with the creativity, and ultimately, I don't think the value of his pieces have even hit a high. Elishewitz and Lambert have NEVER been fully recognized by the market in terms of top price, so as prices start falling, that is a good time to buy. I'll be looking for beautiful Lambert knives on the aftermarket soon. Marfione OWNS a certain sector of the market(American made OTF's)...he will ALWAYS laugh all the way to the bank. However, I could easily pop off 50 makers that should hope to have a supplemental source of income, should this knife thing not work out.

3. The knife community as a whole suffers in the long run, because collectors of handmade knives and makers who supply them don't grow on trees like people who buy smartphones. IF the market expands to 500 times it's size in a cycle, it is still a small market, and the loss of perhaps 40% of those participants to correction is felt in every corner.

Coop is right to wonder if it is correction or collapse....and I feel confident in stating that this is a correction cycle, not a collapse.

For a collapse to occur, you need everyone(every existing maker, collector and dealer) in a panic that their knives are worthless, and knives being sold for pennies on the dollar.

If that happens, you will see collectors not in evidence before swooping in to pick up these beauties for a bargain....they will come from the US, but will also come from Europe, Russia and China....the Yen is down right now, so it is unlikely that the Japanese will have a significant effect.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
i am quite happy to see folks making the knives they want to, are interested in, and inspired to create....and then finding a market for them / paying the bills is great...
it's a shame when people feel they can't make or buy the kind of knives they really want to ("chasing" the market, lack of availability)...

keep up the excellent work!
 
STeven, I made several attempts to set my thoughts to text about this but with the limited brainpower that strokes have granted me, I just couldn't thread everything together in logical sequence as you have done above. I think I am a consummate follower of prices and trends in all custom knife markets, spending hours a day at it, and what I think I've been seeing and hearing matches, and could never have been explained better than what you have outlined through your own words above. I call that validation, since it comes from you.
 
Some of us actually carry and use those "fantasy ABS style bowies" on at least a semi regular basis.......not in urban environments perhaps, but not everyone lives in the city and works in a high rise office building.
If it's got an edge, and someone likes it, it is legit.......no matter what the panel of popular pundits pontificate:D

Darcy

People really fight with bowies in the 21st century? I bet they carry a smaller knife with a bowie style blade.

I spend a fair amount of time in rural america, they don't fight with bowies :) or carry them. A good fixed blade is welcome in many places, including cities. The ones I see are not fighting bowies.

Well, there are always mountain man rendevous, civil war re-enactors, gun shows and cowboy action shooting...but then that is fantasy, not the real world...just like overbuilt american tantos are fantasy.
 
People really fight with bowies in the 21st century? I bet they carry a smaller knife with a bowie style blade.

I spend a fair amount of time in rural america, they don't fight with bowies :) or carry them. A good fixed blade is welcome in many places, including cities. The ones I see are not fighting bowies.

Well, there are always mountain man rendevous, civil war re-enactors, gun shows and cowboy action shooting...but then that is fantasy, not the real world...just like overbuilt american tantos are fantasy.

did he say anything about fighting with a bowie? I also carry a bowie when I am in the woods.
what is the main difference betwen a fighting bowie and a non fighting bowie? a sharpened clip for a fighting bowie vs false edge for regular? these are not daggers or guns they have multiple uses even if they are "fighting bowies" they are still bowies.
 
Last edited:
Some denigrate high priced tacticool customs for being fantasy knives, I think that is unfair, since I believe that "fighting bowies" are just as much fantasy blades. That is not bad, just "is" IMHO. To me a fighting bowie is defined by the maker or the owner. I have one and use it to chop up wood chunks for BBQ :) It is always a fantasy blade for me, even when i took it camping.
 
Some denigrate high priced tacticool customs for being fantasy knives, I think that is unfair, since I believe that "fighting bowies" are just as much fantasy blades. That is not bad, just "is" IMHO. To me a fighting bowie is defined by the maker or the owner. I have one and use it to chop up wood chunks for BBQ :) It is always a fantasy blade for me, even when i took it camping.

As are art knives in my view..
 
People really fight with bowies in the 21st century? I bet they carry a smaller knife with a bowie style blade.

I spend a fair amount of time in rural america, they don't fight with bowies :) or carry them. A good fixed blade is welcome in many places, including cities. The ones I see are not fighting bowies.

Well, there are always mountain man rendevous, civil war re-enactors, gun shows and cowboy action shooting...but then that is fantasy, not the real world...just like overbuilt american tantos are fantasy.

I don't do a lot of "fighting" at all actually, with or without a knife. I did kill a mountain lion with one of my bowies(Damascus even) in a strange roadside dog kerfuffle, but that's another story.:eek:

This was the cat killer(also cleaned the trout in the pic with it)


My current backwoods EDC



I may be the odd man out, but I do use this size and style for almost everything........and they work quite nicely. Thin edge, good distal taper, the right balance, and enough length for leverage, and you'd be surprised what these "fantasy" knives can do in reality.

Plus, you never know when I might need to get in a fight!;):D

Much respect,
Darcy
 
Some denigrate high priced tacticool customs for being fantasy knives, I think that is unfair, since I believe that "fighting bowies" are just as much fantasy blades.

depends on the way the thing is made.

Most 'fighting bowies' of more or less traditional manufacture that I have an interest in, elevate and exemplify cutting efficiency- from butt to tip. I won't comment on the category you're comparing here, since I'm not assured I know what your terms encompass, but there is a preponderance of custom knives on the market that seem to be selling well at the moment, which sport dramatic aesthetics at the expense of ergonomics, and/or cutting geometries designed for something other than things people would regularly lean on a knife for, and I assume that's what you're generally referring to. Both cases decrease the versatility of that knife as a tool, rendering it...

Intention occupies the realm of fantasy, but action occupies a physical realm- where comfort and convenience rule. The 'fighting bowie' which we have all seen evolve greatly in the past 10 years, due to the vision of fellows like Jason Knight, has reached a certain zenith specifically due to its physical qualities. There is a purity of intention and action in the newskool 'fighting bowie' genre, which hasn't bled out into the Starship Troopers psyche yet. I don't particularly like the weaponizing descriptor, but whatever it is called, it has achieved its position for a reason.

What everyone seems to be trying to figure out is the reasoning behind this behemoth we call a 'market' in order to determine what it's looking for and why. It sorts out the what, mostly on its own, but it's up to the marketers to tell them 'why'. Are we marketers?
 
If I may add something here, despite that we live in an era in which long-range, charged weapons have become the new standard, swords and large fighting knives on their own remain just as effective (physically and psychologically) as they have been for thousands of years, if not more so. If you don't have a gun, pulling out a sword will send an invading crackhead busting the door off its hinges on the way out. It's in the news all the time!
 
Back
Top