Where are they going?

I think a few members above hit the nail on the head and did not even know it. Yes we are a generous group overall and always willing to help. But you can only answer the same questions so many time and you just get done. Every day I log in and the first page always looks about the same. What grinder?, what steel? What belts? What HT exc. I’m not saying it’s bad but it’s like turning on the tv and all that’s on is the same few shows. How long do you watch the same shows befor you just turn off the tv and find somthing more productive to do.

I love to see the craft growing and spreading. But there has to be a benefit for the guys providing all the answers to the new people. The benefit use to be that knives moved rather fast in the custom for sale section. Now that section is completely flooded with knives from all thoes people that came here to “learn”. Which then diluted the market with knives priced so low it’s impossible to compete. The excuse is, well I’m just doing this for fun so I don’t care if I make money. Well you might not care but you just took breakfast away from the guy that generously shared his hard earned knowledge with you.

I have noticed the shift in activity from the social side of the form to the sales section. The sad thing is a ton of these forsale threads don’t get a single response. Is this from less customers or a flooded market, I’m not sure. But one thing is for sure, knives do not move like thy did in the past.

Like I said in my other responses I love(d) the form, it’s my social life. But some times it feals like we are looked at,and treated like google. “How do I do this” “well first you need to .........” “thanks” and off thy go to dilute without a second thought to the actual value thy just revived.

I try and post helpful or entertaining things with the occasional question tossed in there once and a while. Some times I catch my self thinking why, why are spending your precious time doing this. Usaly it’s after my wife walks by and says somthing like “you been on there for hours, are you going to do anything productive today”. Why do You spend your valuable time trying to help others when you get zero benefit back. I know this might come across sounding selfish but it’s not ment to. If the people providing this valuable content do not subconsciously see a return on there “investment” thy will say “why”, why am I paying actual hard earned money to stand around and hand out my trade secrets.

Sorry for the long winded post. I just got back home from a very long drive picking up a lathe. So I had lots of time to realy think and stir up some thoughts.

PS I just wanted to say that I did not start this thread to bash BF. I did it for the complete opposite reasion. I would like to see the form grow and become great. How this happens is the long run, I don’t know. But it would have to start with hearing the concerns of the other members.

Thanks guys - JT
 
Nothing new in what is happening here. People migrate in, they stay a while, they migrate out. Go back and look at old threads from different groups of years, different names, same content, and a few years later the names turn over again. Happens in almost all forums from many different interests.
If a business model was conceived and developed thinking this venue alone would be THE way, well, that makes for a poor business model with ever-diminishing returns every year.
The world changes fast now, and you have to adapt ever-faster to keep up with the change.
Someone mentioned the contacts and friendships that started here and continue on a more personal level outside of BF. THAT sounds like a great return on time spent here.
I write novels, have for almost twenty years. But I don't go on a site like say, KDP and try to peddle my books there to other writers, but many do. And then they wonder why their creations don't sell?
I did not pay the fee here to sell here, l paid to help support a venue that helps those who want to learn and are trying to decide if knifemaking is a life's passion or just a passing fancy in a new world where anything and everything is available to anyone with an internet connection.
We each have to decide whether or not we are getting enough out of something to make it worth our time and efforts.
And, sometimes we grow personally and need something different to stimulate us (or just want to be around new/ different mindsets and attitudes).
 
It seems to me there are plenty guys in the general discussion that can support the site, why charge vendors, suppliers, and makers?
 
Randy3000 said:
It seems to me there are plenty guys in the general discussion that can support the site, why charge vendors, suppliers, and makers?
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Charging is fair and common practice to those who sell on forums.

But BF team feels the forum is so influential and important, that even Experience knife makers who do not sell on the forum and have waiting lists, receive a tremendous benefit for the exposure they get here and they should have to pay for that and contribute to forum content for free.

They literally want to charge $75 for well know experienced knife makers to contribute content even if they never sell on the forum.

What ended up happening is the little fish chased out the big fish and they now feel as if they are the Big Fish in the pond.

The good thing is there remains many talented knifemakers here on BF but many do not post here in shop talk, , many are in Customs forum.

We all know the great makers on this forum, we know their logos, their work, their quality and their skill proves they practice what they preach.

Now think of some who often give advice, do you know what their logo is, have you actually seen a good up close view of their work?

As @J. Doyle said "I'd need both hands to count the ones I know first-hand who left because of armchair experts here who give TONS of 'advice', much of it contradictory to proven methods and processes, yet have zero photo evidence of their work to show they knew what they were talking about.

Or in a few cases, the photo evidence that was available showed that they should be heeding advice rather than giving it."
 
For alot of us this forum was kind of our introduction to knife making and the community that comes with it. I learned how to make my first knife here, sold my first knife here, and asked ALOT of questions. BF will always have a special place I think for alot of us.
The problem with forums is, a new guy can get a little bit of knowledge and think hes know it all and get a little cocky and begin to step on toes with their "information"
 
AVigil said:
But BF team feels the forum is so influential and important, that even Experience knife makers who do not sell on the forum and have waiting lists, receive a tremendous benefit for the exposure they get here and they should have to pay for that and contribute to forum content for free.

They literally want to charge $75 for well know experienced knife makers to contribute content even if they never sell on the forum.
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^^^THIS^^^
I've been here for over 5 years and the wealth of knowledge compiled in the stickies alone is worth paying for but I've also had conversations and received advice from people at the very top of this profession for free because of this forum and it's a shame that some makers were treated that way. I've seen it with my own eyes over the years. I've purchased a membership in the past but I now find that I have to dig to find something worth reading so I visit less often and contribute even less. I really hope BF realizes that having some more big names contributing valuable content here would benefit the forum much more than a $75 membership fee for non-selling makers.
 
JTknives said:
I have noticed over the many years I have been part of this forum somthing that disturbs me. This is the fact that we seam to be loosing great smiths. I’m not talking about them retiring or passing away. I’m talking about them just tossing in the towel on the forum. This saddens me becaus I remember what it was like back in the day. I’m not sure what is causing this trend but I hope it’s not somthing permanent. I do know some feal like the forum has just become a place where newbs come to scrape up information and run. I don’t mind the influx of new faces. As long as thy are here to learn and contribute. I have noticed as the number of newbies goes up so has the number of pro smiths gone down. Is there a connection, I hope not. I would like to hold onto as many experanced smiths here as possible. Sorry if this is kinda random. I just was thinking back to the ol days. If anyone has any thoughts, please share.
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You are just noticing, now? lol... probably not... but it came across that way.
Not sure what is causing the trend? Man... I don't know what to say.
There have been many interventions and pleas for reform over the years... it has fallen upon deaf ears.

The current atmosphere is hostile toward experienced smiths. Virtually all the people I would consider friends and mentors have been driven away. Only a few remain... and I thank them for that. There is no "changing of the guard" happening, here. Sounds really negative, eh? Well... that's all I got, today.

I'm sure some of the replies here have nailed the reasons... but I don't have the energy to read through it. I'll just have to trust that somebody mentioned that Stacy, pissing everybody off had a lot to do with it.
 
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I haven’t commented since this came back up, and have mulled it over a bit.

I don’t like having to pay, especially since I haven’t sold a single knife through the sales section, but have sold maybe four knives in total from people who have sought me out here. So, approximately 246 sales independently, and four from here. (I guesstimated I’ve made about 250 knives so far.) I’m no in demand maker, and I don’t need this forum to sell knives. I like the community here, so I keep showing up.

The world is changing, and where I see improvements is taking all of the info in the stickies, and changing it from a wall of text, to pics with text, or even videos. This is the direction everything is going.

Oh, and stop chasing away the most experienced people. It’s lousy policy. From m a business perspective, a loss leader is sound strategy. Draw people in, and have them consume while here. Experienced makers are free advertising.
 
Willie71 said:
Oh, and stop chasing away the most experienced people. It’s lousy policy. From m a business perspective, a loss leader is sound strategy. Draw people in, and have them consume while here. Experienced makers are free advertising.
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When a person wants to be know as "The forum expert" the easiest way is to insult, send nasty emails and chase away the actual experts.

As I was learning and as I still learn I always look to those who have actual physical evidence of their expertise , not just words on the internet.
 
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