How To Where do I start...

Jack of All Blades

Jack of All Blades

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Nov 12, 2017
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I want to start making my own Ideas into reality.. Where do I start though?

Looking to start a full list of tools and equipment needed to start forging.
Someone please explain it to me like Im 5.

1. Temp gauge.
2. Kiln/Oven
3.Torch
4. A good forging hammer
5. Anvil Bench Vice
6. Quench bucket with oil?


Please add anything you can to the list, and I will post my progress as time goes on.

(I hope this is the right area to post this.)
 
#2: Check out the stickies
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Important Info! Thread 'Sticky Threads - All The Good Info You Want In One Place'

The stickies have all been condensed into this new super-sticky. This will free up the top of the forum, but make all the good info just a click or two away.

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weo said:
#2: Check out the stickies
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Important Info! Thread 'Sticky Threads - All The Good Info You Want In One Place'

The stickies have all been condensed into this new super-sticky. This will free up the top of the forum, but make all the good info just a click or two away.

Each will have its own segment, and all the info is still there.

Any additional info that you folks think should be added to the stickies can still be added by a moderator. Just send Mark or me a PM with the thread or info that you would like stickied.
  • Like
Click to expand...
Oops.. that would have saved a lot of time..
Thanks!
 
Where to start? ........ start by filling out your profile!
That will tell us where you live and something about you.

The best way to get started in learning knifemaking and forging is to find a local blacksmith/bladesmith group and join.
There are also schools in several places that will teach you a lot in a week.
Private lessons from a local smith are also well worth the price. (often a six-pack of beers)

The list of tools and equipment is almost endless, but you are starting from zero the basic tools will be those needed to make a knife by forging. Use the Custom Search Engine in the stickys to find many threads with lists of tools to start knifemaking. The steel choices are also vast, but start with 1084 or a similar simple forging and HT steel.

First things first - Safety gear -
A leather apron, safety glasses, gloves, fire extinguishers, garden hose, clear low-fire-risk work area, good lighting, first aid kit, cell phone. Hearing protection is wise.

The first basic list is tools to shape a knife.
1) Something to remove unhardened steel - Files and sandpaper. A belt grinder is what most makers use. While a 2X72" grinder is te preferred size, even a cheap 1X30 will get you started.
2) A forge of some sort. - This varies from a propane torch and a few fire bricks to a propane forge with venturi or blown burners, to a coal forge. Propane is by far the simplest to use and learn.
3) Forging tools - Again, the list is long, but the basics are - Tongs to hold the hot steel, hammers to forge with (simple 2# cross-peen to start with), an anvil weighing more than 70#, water bucket for cooling things off. There are lots of tong types and other tools like hardie tools and dozens of hammer styles, but in the beginning an simple anvil, one 2# hammer, a pair of box-jaw tongs and a pair of pick-up tongs will get you started.
Check out Atlas Knife and Tools. They make really good forges and anvils for basic knifemaking. Kayne & Sons carries all sorts of hamers and tongs. There is a sticky thread on grinders.

Tools to harden and shape hard steel.
1) You need a way to harden your blade once forged and filed/ground/sanded to a basic shape. - This can be your forge and a bucket of quench oil, or an electric HT oven. While the HT oven will be the best choice, many smiths have used a forge. Eventually you will want a HT oven.
2) Quench medium - The most used quench oil is Parks #50. Canola oil will work for simple steels like 1084. You want a vertical metal quench tank that holds 2 gallons of oil or more.
3) Once hardened it need to be tempered. This can be done in the kitchen oven or a good countertop oven. In a pinch, a toaster oven will work.
Note- Clean the blade well with soap and water before tempering.

Tools to finish the knife
This can be a big stack of sandpaper (silicon carbide wet-or-dry 3-M or other metal working papers) and a wooden block to wrap it around up to a variable speed belt grinder with water spray. If using a non-variable speed grinder, you have to be cautious of overheating the blade and ruining the HT. Dipping in water every pass will help. Once the scale and decarb are ground/sanded away you refine the blade with the grinder or by hand with sandpaper.
You will need to add a handle and attach it securely as well. A sheath for the knife is also wise.

From here it is a rabbit hole of newer and more sophisticated tools, supplies, and equipment. I haven't hit the bottom of the hole yet.

Good luck!
 
Found a couple bladesmiths around the area. Currently calling around to see where I can get some help making my idea.

Bit of an off topic question, have any of you designed something totally unique that hasn’t (to your knowledge) been done before?

Besides patenting, how did it become known as your idea?

I have a design I’m fairly certain hasn’t been done before at least by a big manufacturer, and I’ve never seen it done anywhere for as long as I’ve been into blades.

How would I avoid a Tom Brown Tracker situation, and hopefully have it known it started here? Should I hope this thread be enough proof?
 
Jack of All Blades said:
Found a couple bladesmiths around the area. Currently calling around to see where I can get some help making my idea.

Bit of an off topic question, have any of you designed something totally unique that hasn’t (to your knowledge) been done before?

Besides patenting, how did it become known as your idea?

I have a design I’m fairly certain hasn’t been done before at least by a big manufacturer, and I’ve never seen it done anywhere for as long as I’ve been into blades.

How would I avoid a Tom Brown Tracker situation, and hopefully have it known it started here? Should I hope this thread be enough proof?
Click to expand...
Having a thread, blog post, video, etc is not enough proof if you want to legally protect something. If you have any design or invention that has potential to be successful and can be legally protected, it would be a good idea in my opinion. The Berg tilt-table and Northridge's economy grinder are just 2 (of many) examples in this industry of original deigns being ripped off.

Also you need to figure out which designation your idea falls under; i.e. patent, trademark, etc. For example, Busse has a trademark on the double talon hole design. That kind of creative design couldn't be patented, versus if you designed a completely new type of locking mechanism for folders which should be able to be patented.
 
BRab said:
Having a thread, blog post, video, etc is not enough proof if you want to legally protect something. If you have any design or invention that has potential to be successful and can be legally protected, it would be a good idea in my opinion. The Berg tilt-table and Northridge's economy grinder are just 2 (of many) examples in this industry of original deigns being ripped off.

Also you need to figure out which designation your idea falls under; i.e. patent, trademark, etc. For example, Busse has a trademark on the double talon hole design. That kind of creative design couldn't be patented, versus if you designed a completely new type of locking mechanism for folders which should be able to be patented.
Click to expand...
but patents expire.... so if applicable a trademark could be considered "better"
 
I have "invented" a few things that as far as I know haven't ever been made before. I have never pursued patents though because a patent is only as good as how ever much money you are willing to spend to defend it. So it depends on what kind of value your idea may have. If it has the potential to become a household name then it may be worth trademarking and getting a patent.

What it really comes down to though, if you want your name tied to it, is advertising/marketing. An example of this is Heinz. Ketchup was around long before Heinz started selling it, he was just really good at advertising.
 
Trademarks expire, also.
There isn't much in the cutlery industry that hasn't already been done.
 
fitzo said:
Remember, if you have a great success it will be available online a year from now from China at 20% of your pricing. And then the $$$ futile lawsuits have to start, and the lawyers love it.
Click to expand...
This is something I’ve come to accept. Along with probably other companies coming out with the same thing just tweaked here or there. The main goal is to improve bushcraft survival options by having it be made. Secondary goal is at least having some credit for making the idea happen.
 
Jack of All Blades said:
I want to start making my own Ideas into reality.. Where do I start though?

Looking to start a full list of tools and equipment needed to start forging.
Someone please explain it to me like Im 5.

1. Temp gauge.
2. Kiln/Oven
3.Torch
4. A good forging hammer
5. Anvil Bench Vice
6. Quench bucket with oil?


Please add anything you can to the list, and I will post my progress as time goes on.

(I hope this is the right area to post this.)
Click to expand...


That ain't how it works.

Now, a lot of folks out here on the Net are wantin' to make knives for e-commerce, and they're gonna get a lot of bad advice from every which-a-way. I'm here to give you the real McCoy.

Some yahoo is likely to come in here with some nonsense about forging rail spikes all damn day until they look like a knife.

Wrong.

This is a common misconception that came from the RIGHT way to make a good knife, which isn't rail spikes, it's TRAINS.

What you do is head to the rail yard and take a look at the train cars, until you find one with flat springs. They look like this:

mq4m0ri.jpeg


It's those stacks of flat metal, perfect for making knives. Just bring some tools and take as many as you need, there's rail cars all over the place in the rail yard. If anyone gets to jaw jointin' at you about it just pay 'em no mind.

Next you take the flat pieces and lay one out on the rail track in front of a locomotive engine car. Now all you gotta do is heat up the flat spring bar with a propane grass burner until it glows good n' yellow, and have the train driver roll over it until it's thin. Ain't no hammer that's as strong as a train.

Now take the bar and heat it up until it glows again and dunk it in a barrel of train fuel.

Use wood from the rail ties for a handle, give it an edge and there you go. Do it enough and you have yourself an e-business making train knives. Any other method is just a waste of time and a scam to get you to buy fancy tools you ain't need.
 
Mecha said:
That ain't how it works.

Now, a lot of folks out here on the Net are wantin' to make knives for e-commerce, and they're gonna get a lot of bad advice from every which-a-way. I'm here to give you the real McCoy.

Some yahoo is likely to come in here with some nonsense about forging rail spikes all damn day until they look like a knife.

Wrong.

This is a common misconception that came from the RIGHT way to make a good knife, which isn't rail spikes, it's TRAINS.

What you do is head to the rail yard and take a look at the train cars, until you find one with flat springs. They look like this:

mq4m0ri.jpeg


It's those stacks of flat metal, perfect for making knives. Just bring some tools and take as many as you need, there's rail cars all over the place in the rail yard. If anyone gets to jaw jointin' at you about it just pay 'em no mind.

Next you take the flat pieces and lay one out on the rail track in front of a locomotive engine car. Now all you gotta do is heat up the flat spring bar with a propane grass burner until it glows good n' yellow, and have the train driver roll over it until it's thin. Ain't no hammer that's as strong as a train.

Now take the bar and heat it up until it glows again and dunk it in a barrel of train fuel.

Use wood from the rail ties for a handle, give it an edge and there you go. Do it enough and you have yourself an e-business making train knives. Any other method is just a waste of time and a scam to get you to buy fancy tools you ain't need.
Click to expand...
Awww, heck.... I finally got my hands on 500 railroad spikes like you used to suggest! Now I gotta go find a train?!?:(:mad::oops:
 
Jack of All Blades said:
How would I avoid a Tom Brown Tracker situation, and hopefully have it known it started here? Should I hope this thread be enough proof?
Click to expand...

Just makes some interesting and useful knives that came from your mind. Being influenced by other designs is fine. But trademarks and patents and legalese.... Do you really want to have to deal with the Legal Smeagols? I don't. Look at them. Nasty.

1723701216066.png
 
I like the screen name.... haha.

Plenty of good advice here already. Start simple and don't expect your first 1, 10, or even 20 knives to be very good. As long as you make each one better than the last, you'll have something decent before too long though... ;)

If you can find an in person teacher, you can shave years off of the learning curve, but then again, that all depends on the teacher. If they start talking about which direction your anvil needs to face in order to line up with magnetic poles, or quenching your steel in a cocktail of used oil, ATF and bacon grease, I'd probably take what they say with a grain of salt.

As for unique designs, there's usually a reason you've never seen it before, or it already exists, and you just haven't seen it before. I'm kidding (mostly), but in all seriousness, I'm not sure I'd get too hung up on patents and trademarks just yet. I swear there's a post on this forum about once every 3 to 6 months from somebody that claims to have an idea for the next biggest idea since the Michael Walker liner lock (which more/less already existed before Mr. Walker popularized it, btw), but I don't know that I've ever seen a single follow up to any of those threads.
Maybe after the OPs became millionaires they were too busy to log back into Blade Forums....

Again, I'm kidding (mostly). My advice is to get to the point that you can make (or have somebody help you make) a couple of prototypes, and then lend them to a couple people that would be considered within the targeted user demographic. I.E., if you think you've revolutionized a skinning knife design, find an experienced hunter (or better yet a butcher) to give it a test run.
If it's a new take on a chef knife, find a couple of professional chefs to take it for a spin. If they immediately offer to buy it, then you may be onto something.

At any rate, good luck and keep us updated!
 
Last edited:
Drew Riley said:
I swear there's a post on this forum about once every 3 to 6 months from somebody that claims to have an idea for the next biggest idea since the Michael Walker liner lock (which more/less already existed before Mr. Walker popularized it, btw), but I don't know that I've ever seen a single follow up to any of those threads.
Maybe after the OPs became millionaires they were two busy to log back into Blade Forums....
Click to expand...


Ahhh yes, like the FFK folding fixed-blade. That was a doozie.

F

Thread 'Strongest folding knife !'

Take a look at this ! Strongest folding knife. Uses an over-center type lock. It makes a fixed blade knife when locked open

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ful_-0SevBo
 
You still haven't added your profile info of location and such. It would really help us steer you to a good klearning experience.

Without knowing if this is possible for you:
The ABS school in Arkansas, Maine, and NC have great beginner and advanced classes. It is well worth the cost and makes a great trip.
www.americanbladesmith.org

ABS Approved Schools

The ABS offers courses in several aspects of bladesmithing. In accelerating a bladesmith's learning, the advantages offered by these classes is so great that anybody attending an ABS Intro to Bladesmithing Course is allowed to eliminate an entire year from the required time as an Apprentice...
www.americanbladesmith.org www.americanbladesmith.org
There are other colleges and places that offer beginj9ng bladesmith classes.
 
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