Where Spydercos Fall Short

Indoril

Indoril

Joined
May 27, 2013
Messages
130
Popular Spyderco knives tend to fall short on edge/overall length ratio. That is, they pack less cutting edge in a relatively larger package. Some might say it's worth giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics, but I would argue that a good folder design maximizes both!

Here are 11 popular EDC folders of various sizes sorted by CUTTING EDGE to overall length ratio*
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*From manufacturer's specs. Used the cutting edge when available, but some makers just give less accurate "blade length". Values are approximate

As you can see, common Spydercos tend to fall on the low end of Edge/OAL ratio. To put this in perspective, if you imagine an 8 inch OAL knife with the ratio of the ZT 450 (0.441) and another 8 inch knife with the ratio of the Delica (0.359), that's a difference of almost 2/3rds of an inch of cutting edge! That seems like a non-negligible amount. I'm not knocking Spydercos; I love the workmanship and materials of my Delica and carry it often. But I wonder if Spyderco will ever evolve their current design language to try something new?

So, I issue a challenge to Spyderco! Can they develop a knife, 6 - 7 inches overall, with an CUTTING EDGE/OAL ratio of 0.42 or more?

HARDMODE: add an Emerson wave opener

Would anyone else like to see this?

PS.

Note the Edge/Mass column. Some may doubt the value of this metric, since, unless you're an ultralight backpacker, an extra ounce or two doesn't make a difference to most people. But what this metric can tell you is how efficient the knife design is for its weight, IE how much cutting edge you get in exchange for carrying around that weight all day.
The Flash 1, with its complete lack of liners, is insanely efficient for its weight, at 1.72 mm of edge per gram! Whether or not it's worth forgoing the strength of liners altogether depends on the use case. The Dragonfly is also very efficient in this regard; if it had a higher Edge/OAL ratio, it might have been able to dethrone the Flash 1 in the weight efficiency department! Either way they're both fantastic little knives.
 
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I don't think the average knife guy or gal (there must be a few) care much (if at all) about handle to blade efficiency. They care about what it looks like.

Knife nerds like us get into ergonomics, fit and finish, and blade steel. Nobody else cares. I pay attention, and notice when people have a knife cliiped to thier pocket. 9 times out of 10 it's a gas station knife.

Edited to add: I've never had a Spyderco fall short in any way. Always handled what was thrown at it, regardless of the fact that tha blade to handle ratio was different from other brands.
 
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Danke42 said:
I sure wish they made an Endura with an Emerson opener hook.
If such a thing existed it's ratio would be 4.33 and nearly perfect.
If it existed.
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I believe they do make such a thing, but it has the same ratio as the normal Endura (0.396)
 
The biggest gripe I personally have with the Delica is the 2.5 inch cutting edge. That's just too small for my tastes, especially considering how wide it is in the pocket for that tiny edge.
 
Comeuppance said:
Given that Spyderco knives tend to employ curved, leaf-shaped blades, the true length of cutting edge is longer than what you would get from just measuring straight down the center from the tip. That skews the data somewhat.
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What matters most is the distance from the start of the edge to the end at the tip as the crow flies, which is the cross sectional cutting area. A serrated or kris style blade technically has "more" cutting edge, but that's typically not what matters. Somewhat related, read up on the Coastline Paradox
 
Danke42 said:
I sure wish they made an Endura with an Emerson opener hook.
If such a thing existed it's ratio would be 4.33 and nearly perfect.
If it existed.
Click to expand...
Spyderco has had an Endura with Emerson wave for years. Also a waved Delica.

Jim
 
This is a well-known situation. Based on objective sales data I would guess that it is relatively unimportant to most knife users. It is relatively unimportant to me. While I can appreciate the engineering when a designer chooses to focus on maximizing that ratio, if I was forced to choose between "giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics" I would choose ergos every time.
 
Cutting performance trumps blade length in my opinion. I could carry a trail master every day and it would have better blade to handle ratio than any folder. But it wouldn't be any better at edc tasks then a delica or para 2. Of course this is an exaggeration but i don't mind a larger handle since it makes it a joy in the hand.
 
SpySmasher said:
This is a well-known situation. Based on objective sales data I would guess that it is relatively unimportant to most knife users. It is relatively unimportant to me. While I can appreciate the engineering when a designer chooses to focus on maximizing that ratio, if I was forced to choose between "giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics" I would choose ergos every time.
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I think you are right. But I think it's a shame that things like Edge/OAL and Edge/mass are unimportant to most users. Of course that's not all people should consider, but I think it would be good if they did pay some attention to things like that. It may lead to better and more elegant designs
 
I'd say that the Spyderco Mantra has a pretty good blade to handle ratio. One of the few spydercos that doesn't use a riccaso or forward finiger choil.
 
SpySmasher said:
This is a well-known situation. Based on objective sales data I would guess that it is relatively unimportant to most knife users. It is relatively unimportant to me. While I can appreciate the engineering when a designer chooses to focus on maximizing that ratio, if I was forced to choose between "giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics" I would choose ergos every time.
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I agree totally. Ergos along with an ample cutting edge trump put pure cutting edge every time in my opinion.

I when through a period where I was carrying larger blades, but for general usage I found that 2" will generally be more than enough for most EDC tasks.
 
One thing about Spyderco is the way they do their fongwr choils. Look at the PM2 for example. The choil is lower than the edge of the blade. If you wanted to cut against a flat table, you would have to raise the butt of the knife to clear your index finger. Even if not using the choil it is still lower than the blade edge.

Now look at the way Hinderer does his choils. His choil is inset into the blade further up. Most of his knives have a flipper tab which gets in the way anyway. However on a non flipper Hinderer his choil is perfect in my eyes.

The advantage to the Spydie style is that it is under the ricasso and thus the blade is thicker and more comfortable to hold onto there. Hinderer style choils being further towards the tip of the blade are much narrower to hold on to.
 
halden.doerge said:
I'd say that the Spyderco Mantra has a pretty good blade to handle ratio. One of the few spydercos that doesn't use a riccaso or forward finiger choil.
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Very true! However this one seems to be an outlier in the Spyderco lineup and I did not mean to imply that all of them follow the trend. Also interesting to note that flipper designs seem to lend themselves to having better edge ratios. I'm glad to see that Spyderco are introducing more flipper based designs, especially with compression locks :thumbsup:
 
Spyderco likes choils. No denying that. They definitely do not focus on blade to handle ratios.

Three of the four you picked have backlocks. A backock usually implements a kick to prevent the blade from touching the backspacer. This kick automatically requires a ricasso of some sort thus reducing this ratio even on knives which lack a choil. Unless the kick is omitted a backlock will never be competitive in blade to handle ratio. It has nothing to do with being a flipper but is about the lock choice and lack of a choil.

You will need to look at Spydies which are not backlocks and which do not have choils. Most of those are collaborations and not in house designs. There are a few exceptions.


Pattada
Mantra
Southard
Positron
K2
Centofante Memeory
Slysz Bowie

I realize this is important to a lot of people but I am not one of them. Personally to me this is bench racing. In use their tools just flat out work. This is just my take on it. To each their own. :)
 
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