Where Spydercos Fall Short

We all use different criteria in selecting our edged tools... steel, handle materials, weight, country of origin... heck, even color.

Indoril happens to also utilize blade to handle ratio, and finds that it is important to him. When he says that Spyderco falls short in this department, he means it. (I'm using "he" and "him" as placeholder pronouns, correct me if incorrect) Spyderco may not "fall short" based on this feature to you, or you, or me... but they definitely show a trend in their models that have caught the attention of at least one consumer.

And that's a fair point of discussion. Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree... It's something to consider, and kind of an interesting topic.

I myself am actually eyeballing some of my various EDC selections here, and I can see that a decent blade to handle ratio is a common denominator in my choices. I've never consciously used it as a selection criteria, perhaps my choices just happen to have a decent ratio by coincidence, but maybe it's something that is an underlying factor that's there without me noticing it.

Strangely enough, I have exactly two Spyderco knives here that I've decided to keep... Full size Jess Horn and a baby Jess Horn.... two models that sport a decent blade to handle ratio. Maybe, just maybe, that aspect appeals to me without me really paying attention to it.
 
Maybee so..but ultimately knives are made for cutting and this one cuts like a fricking demon...

spyderco-paramilitary-2-c81gm4p2-jade-natural-g10-cpm-m4-sprint-run-quot-new-in-box-quot-9ead43be238e7cfc2afe1f3057a0d16a.jpg
 
So according to the OP's chart, he covers the Kershaw Chill. At least they're cheap. Buy a bucket of them and enjoy I guess ;)
 
Velitrius said:
We all use different criteria in selecting our edged tools... steel, handle materials, weight, country of origin... heck, even color.

Indoril happens to also utilize blade to handle ratio, and finds that it is important to him. When he says that Spyderco falls short in this department, he means it. (I'm using "he" and "him" as placeholder pronouns, correct me if incorrect) Spyderco may not "fall short" based on this feature to you, or you, or me... but they definitely show a trend in their models that have caught the attention of at least one consumer.

And that's a fair point of discussion. Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree... It's something to consider, and kind of an interesting topic.

I myself am actually eyeballing some of my various EDC selections here, and I can see that a decent blade to handle ratio is a common denominator in my choices. I've never consciously used it as a selection criteria, perhaps my choices just happen to have a decent ratio by coincidence, but maybe it's something that is an underlying factor that's there without me noticing it.

Strangely enough, I have exactly two Spyderco knives here that I've decided to keep... Full size Jess Horn and a baby Jess Horn.... two models that sport a decent blade to handle ratio. Maybe, just maybe, that aspect appeals to me without me really paying attention to it.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head. I like to consider things like edge/handle ratio and edge/mass in knives, and I think such aspects might warrant more attention than most people give them, but that's just my thought process. :p
I realize that there is a LOT more than goes into a knife and that it should be judged holistically, how it performs as a package

Very interesting how you gravitate towards blades with a longer blade/handle ratio. Maybe you are drawn to that aesthetic or prefer it subconsciously? I am very interested in the Baby Jess Horn and think it's one of the best Spydie lockbacks right now. Almost has the same cutting edge as the Delica but is almost a full inch shorter when closed! Proof that lockbacks need not always have shorter blades for their size. How do you like it? How does it perform?
 
Indoril said:
Popular Spyderco knives tend to fall short on edge/overall length ratio. That is, they pack less cutting edge in a relatively larger package. Some might say it's worth giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics, but I would argue that a good folder design maximizes both!

Here are 11 popular EDC folders of various sizes sorted by CUTTING EDGE to overall length ratio*
ZneSYoR.png

vXkIzq3.png

*From manufacturer's specs. Used the cutting edge when available, but some makers just give less accurate "blade length". Values are approximate

As you can see, common Spydercos tend to fall on the low end of Edge/OAL ratio. To put this in perspective, if you imagine an 8 inch OAL knife with the ratio of the ZT 450 (0.441) and another 8 inch knife with the ratio of the Delica (0.359), that's a difference of almost 2/3rds of an inch of cutting edge! That seems like a non-negligible amount. I'm not knocking Spydercos; I love the workmanship and materials of my Delica and carry it often. But I wonder if Spyderco will ever evolve their current design language to try something new?

So, I issue a challenge to Spyderco! Can they develop a knife, 6 - 7 inches overall, with an CUTTING EDGE/OAL ratio of 0.42 or more?

HARDMODE: add an Emerson wave opener

Would anyone else like to see this?

PS.

Note the Edge/Mass column. Some may doubt the value of this metric, since, unless you're an ultralight backpacker, an extra ounce or two doesn't make a difference to most people. But what this metric can tell you is how efficient the knife design is for its weight, IE how much cutting edge you get in exchange for carrying around that weight all day.
The Flash 1, with its complete lack of liners, is insanely efficient for its weight, at 1.72 mm of edge per gram! Whether or not it's worth forgoing the strength of liners altogether depends on the use case. The Dragonfly is also very efficient in this regard; if it had a higher Edge/OAL ratio, it might have been able to dethrone the Flash 1 in the weight efficiency department! Either way they're both fantastic little knives.
Click to expand...
Some places cap blade length in a folder at 3”.

Maybe someone does not want a 3 finger knife, but can only have a 3” blade.

Blade to handle ratio, is a personal preference thing. It has ZILCH to do with quality or craftsmanship.
 
bearfacedkiller said:
Spyderco likes choils. No denying that. They definitely do not focus on blade to handle ratios.

Three of the four you picked have backlocks. A backock usually implements a kick to prevent the blade from touching the backspacer. This kick automatically requires a ricasso of some sort thus reducing this ratio even on knives which lack a choil. Unless the kick is omitted a backlock will never be competitive in blade to handle ratio. It has nothing to do with being a flipper but is about the lock choice and lack of a choil.

You will need to look at Spydies which are not backlocks and which do not have choils. Most of those are collaborations and not in house designs. There are a few exceptions.


Pattada
Mantra
Southard
Positron
K2
Centofante Memeory
Slysz Bowie

I realize this is important to a lot of people but I am not one of them. Personally to me this is bench racing. In use their tools just flat out work. This is just my take on it. To each their own. :)
Click to expand...

A back lock can use a stop pin, or put the kick in the lock bar. It does not need to be on the blade.
 
My BayouShooter edition PM2 is my least carried Spyderco because I don't find the blade to handle ratio to be aesthetically appealing to me. My wife prefers her Dragonfly Tattoo because of the larger handle to blade ratio because it gives her a full secure grip and most of her EDC needs require minimal blade length.
 
Indoril said:
Very nice. Always loved the look of the jade ghost... looks futuristic, somehow
Click to expand...

Looks more like a kid's glow in the dark toy...

Interesting observation with the cutting edge ratio, but I wouldn't call it "falling short". That may be part of the design plan after all, and is definitely affected by Spyderco's more triangular blade profile.
 
Indoril said:
Very interesting how you gravitate towards blades with a longer blade/handle ratio. Maybe you are drawn to that aesthetic or prefer it subconsciously? I am very interested in the Baby Jess Horn and think it's one of the best Spydie lockbacks right now. Almost has the same cutting edge as the Delica but is almost a full inch shorter when closed! Proof that lockbacks need not always have shorter blades for their size. How do you like it? How does it perform?
Click to expand...

This is the second Baby Horn I've owned, it's the new sprint run with the gray G10 handle and VG-10 steel. The first one was way back when, it was in white micarta and AUS-8 steel. Personally, I liked the micarta far better, as the G10 is rougher than I like. The VG-10 could be considered an upgrade in steel, but I don't put much emphasis on it. AUS-8 is fine for me in a knife this size, as it doesn't really get called into action for heavy duty, extended cutting tasks.

In all, it is a quality piece that carries very well, cuts exceptionally well, looks great, and doubles as a really cool money clip.
 
This analysis is not that useful to me, sorry OP. It's like making up a bogus metric that most people don't care about--say the percentage of bird crap per square mile--and using it to rate the livability of various American cities. The metric may be real, and measurable, but the question is does it even matter?

Most Spyderco blades are freaking awesome, including the handle, AND the blade. They are easy to hold, crazy sharp, use good steels, and have strong locks. They are true high-value knives for the $$$.
 
Indoril said:
Popular Spyderco knives tend to fall short on edge/overall length ratio. That is, they pack less cutting edge in a relatively larger package. Some might say it's worth giving up some cutting edge for improved ergonomics, but I would argue that a good folder design maximizes both!

Here are 11 popular EDC folders of various sizes sorted by CUTTING EDGE to overall length ratio*
ZneSYoR.png

vXkIzq3.png

*From manufacturer's specs. Used the cutting edge when available, but some makers just give less accurate "blade length". Values are approximate

As you can see, common Spydercos tend to fall on the low end of Edge/OAL ratio. To put this in perspective, if you imagine an 8 inch OAL knife with the ratio of the ZT 450 (0.441) and another 8 inch knife with the ratio of the Delica (0.359), that's a difference of almost 2/3rds of an inch of cutting edge! That seems like a non-negligible amount. I'm not knocking Spydercos; I love the workmanship and materials of my Delica and carry it often. But I wonder if Spyderco will ever evolve their current design language to try something new?

So, I issue a challenge to Spyderco! Can they develop a knife, 6 - 7 inches overall, with an CUTTING EDGE/OAL ratio of 0.42 or more?

HARDMODE: add an Emerson wave opener

Would anyone else like to see this?

PS.

Note the Edge/Mass column. Some may doubt the value of this metric, since, unless you're an ultralight backpacker, an extra ounce or two doesn't make a difference to most people. But what this metric can tell you is how efficient the knife design is for its weight, IE how much cutting edge you get in exchange for carrying around that weight all day.
The Flash 1, with its complete lack of liners, is insanely efficient for its weight, at 1.72 mm of edge per gram! Whether or not it's worth forgoing the strength of liners altogether depends on the use case. The Dragonfly is also very efficient in this regard; if it had a higher Edge/OAL ratio, it might have been able to dethrone the Flash 1 in the weight efficiency department! Either way they're both fantastic little knives.
Click to expand...
Lol...
 
Cutlover said:
Looks more like a kid's glow in the dark toy...

Interesting observation with the cutting edge ratio, but I wouldn't call it "falling short". That may be part of the design plan after all, and is definitely affected by Spyderco's more triangular blade profile.
Click to expand...
I think the "falling short" was intended as a pun and not serious criticism. But it ends up coming off as another click bait thread title to me.
Maybe Spyderco is really onto something with the shorter ratio, considering the popularity and all the love these models get!
 
maximus83 said:
This analysis is not that useful to me, sorry OP. It's like making up a bogus metric that most people don't care about--say the percentage of bird crap per square mile--and using it to rate the livability of various American cities. The metric may be real, and measurable, but the question is does it even matter?

Most Spyderco blades are freaking awesome, including the handle, AND the blade. They are easy to hold, crazy sharp, use good steels, and have strong locks. They are true high-value knives for the $$$.
Click to expand...
I hear you about the analysis not being useful to you. Many people feel that way. Obviously there is a lot more in a knife than these types of metrics, but I feel that enthusiasts could pay more attention to them than they currently do, because many folks don't think about it at all. But perhaps only people with a serious case of knife-tism care about metrics like these.
 
maximus83 said:
This analysis is not that useful to me, sorry OP. It's like making up a bogus metric that most people don't care about--say the percentage of bird crap per square mile--and using it to rate the livability of various American cities. The metric may be real, and measurable, but the question is does it even matter?

Most Spyderco blades are freaking awesome, including the handle, AND the blade. They are easy to hold, crazy sharp, use good steels, and have strong locks. They are true high-value knives for the $$$.
Click to expand...
I'd care about that metric if I owned a car lot. Same type of logic for this thread. It might matter to some people but for most I can't imagine getting 5% more blade length is of paramount importance.
 
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