Where to get multi-use + self defense knife?

F

Foxtail

Joined
Aug 3, 1999
Messages
34
I am in the market for a new knife, and I've never thought or learned much about this before. I know enough to have decided on the following features I want in this knife...

1. Single-edged

2. Maybe with a false edge, but definitely a good thrusting tip at least

3. Folding, but LOCKING into open position so it won't close over my fingers in a thrust or if it gets hit the wrong way

4. 4" to 6" blade

5. Openable, and preferrably also closable, with one hand

6. No huge, funky-looking curves in either direction; just a straightforward single-edge blade (obviously the cutting edge will have to curve back a bit to the tip)

7. No serrations

8. Plain, simple handle that allows different grips with the hand, has good traction for grip security, and does NOT make its owner look like a "weapon freak" instead of a guy with a knife; woodgrain or black preferred

Is there anything else I should decide on or figure out before proceeding, as far as the knife itself is concerned; any other features to look for or choose between? And where should I look for such a thing?
 
Sounds like you want a Genesis or an AFCK to me.
 
Stolen shamelessly from Benchmade's website:

710prof.jpg


MODEL 710
BLADE
Length...................... 3.90"
Thickness................. 0.120"
Material................... ATS-34, stainless steel
Hardness.................. 59-61HRC
Overall Length....... 8.80"
Size Closed............. 4.90"
Handle.................... Black anodized aluminum; double heat-treated stainless steel liner
Lock Mechanism... Patented AXIS lock
Weight.................... 4.5 oz.
Warranty................ Limited lifetime





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Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice


 
Check out a Spyderco military or Police. Their website is www.spyderco.com . Either of those can be had in plain edge. Hope this helps.

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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
 
Foxtail, may I also suggest the REKAT Carnivore with its solid as can be rolling lock, or the Spyderco/Terzuola StarMate? The latter is a liner-lock, very controversial in some quarters, a CPM440V blade with a point that is in line with the hilt, and a moderate belly on the cutting edge. I just got one and it is one sturdy, well-made knife.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh


 
I second the reccomendation on the Axis-Lock. You did mention you want something with a blade of 4 to 6 inches, that might be hard to find in a folding knife with all the features you want. The Axis-Lock is a prefect choice or multi-use and self defense, it is very smooth in opening and closing and can be done so with one hand. If you want something more for fighting, and THEN for utility; Something that will scare the hell out of anyone the second you take it out... Go look at the Emerson Folding Spec War. It has a liner-locking mechanism (not as simple as the Axis-Lock, and thus not as easy to make use of it tense situations) and the piece looks almost exactly like it's fixed blade counterpart. The knife that everyone around here is going crazy over if by Chris Reeve, it is called the Sebenza and (aside from being quite expensive) aparantly it is close to, if not at custom knife quality. You would have to get more information on that knife from someone who owns it though.

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Robert Joseph Ansbro

If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed.
-Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
 
If you want something on the 'not so scary' side, I also think the BM710 is a great direction to go in. I have yet to find a spyderco that I want to touch, let alone carry.

I don't think anyone should buy liner locking knives.

If you want an even longer blade, check out the Rekat Sifu. That's a 5" blade. It's also a gorgeous knife. Much higher on the intimidation scale. Also more expensive. I think it's running around 180$-- they seem to just be doing an initial offering, and I'm not sure of the time frame for when these are coming out..
Check out the Rekat Forum for more details on the knife. Check out the link below for a picture. Makes me drool, I'll tell you. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=53704&a=376451&p=11263584&Sequence=1

From my experience, if you want something not scary, you're going to have to dip below the 4" mark. Once you cross that, people will notice when you pull it out to open your mail.

my thoughts.
chizpuf

[This message has been edited by chizpuf (edited 03 August 1999).]
 
Wow, that REKAT thing looks like a Gil Hibben piece... Is that knife even functional, for anything? Just lookig at that piece makes me wonder what the "other guy" might have in his back pocket;-)

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Robert Joseph Ansbro

If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed.
-Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
 
OK, I've poked around the Spyderco and Benchmade sites a bit, and I like what I've seen so far, especially at benchmade. Now I have a few more questions...

Where can I see the Genesis, StarMate, and REKATs that have also been recommended so far?

What's with the big holes on the backs of so many of them, especially the bulging ones on most Spydercos?

How much do these things cost?

Where are they sold in the real world, as opposed to the internet? (This way there's less security risk with my money and accounts, and I can hold the knife in my hands while choosing whether to buy it.) Are these things the same knives, or from the same product lines, as I've seen at Wal-Mart and K-Mart? Somehow I get the impression you're all talking about something a bit more expensive than that. Is anything wrong with the more accessible knives?

And, about the knives with a clip built into one side of the handle: Can I get them without that? If not, are there any made without it, and how can I tell which ones are which? (I don't like the clip.)
 
"Where can I see the Genesis, StarMate, and REKATs that have also been recommended so far?"

You can see them ALL at one website, the Knife Center Of The Internet. You can access all sorts of great cutlery websites (including those for the companies that make the knives above) on the "Links" section of BladeForums. No matter what though, I would recommend you buy from an online retailer called "MJ&S Knives", you can link to him from his posts under the "For Sale: Dealers" section of this site.

"What's with the big holes on the backs of so many of them, especially the bulging ones on most Spydercos?"

They are to encourage faster, one handed opening. There are a few ways to negotiate these holes, depending on the placement and type of lock on the knife, some can make the knife open quicker then others. I put my index finger in the hole and guide the blade open, some people use their thumbs (depending on how their hands fit onto the knife) and others still hold the blade and flick open the knife by moving the handle. This last method is used because the handle is most likely not and heavy and the blade, and this makes it move faster often. The magical hole is actually owned, and rented out by Spyderco...

"How much do these things cost?"

It depends. The Axis-Lock will cost you like one hundred and seventy dollars at most stores, MJ&S had them for around one hundred. Go to "Knife Center Of The Internet" and get all the item numbers for what you think you want, then shop around. Closeouts, sales, anything can make a certain piece out of your range all of a sudden in you range.

"Where are they sold in the real world, as opposed to the internet?"

I almost never buy from physical stores, but go to them often to look and touch knives. Try going to AltaVista and linking onto their "zip2" division, you can enter your area and get address and phone numbers for certain stores in your near (or far) area.

"Are these things the same knives, or from the same product lines, as I've seen at Wal-Mart and K-Mart? Somehow I get the impression you're all talking about something a bit more expensive than that. Is anything wrong with the more accessible knives?"

We all love to buy cheap knives, I know I do. My second favorite company is Victorinox, and they make relatively inexpensive knives. REKAT, Spyderco, and Benchmade are somewhere in the middle of price and consistent quality.

"And, about the knives with a clip built into one side of the handle: Can I get them without that? If not, are there any made without it, and how can I tell which ones are which? (I don't like the clip.)"

All Benchmades that have clips can be taken off , including the Axis-Lock. Some of the smaller Spyderco knives have built in clips, but you will be able to see if the clip is built in because most online stores will mention it under the product specifications. I personally like the clip, the little dip in it not only helps to facilitate grip, it makes a nice spot for my fingers to get used to, so I KNOW my hand is in optimum position without looking.

Don't freak out about price until you know exactly waht you want. If you see a knife at "Knife Center Of The Internet" for $130.00, keep in mind you can most likely get it for about $100.00 somewhere else. Check out a bunch of the links under the "Links" section, look at the forums below this one marker "For Sale" in case a dealer has a closeout on something you want, and make sure you buy something you aren't going to be skiddish about carrying.

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Robert Joseph Ansbro

If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed.
-Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
 
Quick disclaimer: I'm following Sal Glesser's lead and suggesting that the same knife not be expected to perform utility and defense, or it won't be in optimal condition for the latter. If you can carry a handgun, pepper spray, or a baton, any of these might serve better for defense than a folding knife, but if you do carry a defensive knife, carry another one for mundane chores.

Some great suggestions so far. I want to put in a vote for the AFCK, my favorite carry, but point out that it might not have the grip options of some other choices. It has a very curved handle committed to a saber grip, as do many Spydercos like the Military and Police. Putting these knives in a hammer grip feels about as natural to me as holding a bat by the thick end. If you like a forward saber grip, check these out, otherwise you might choose a knife with a straighter layout.

The Starmate is an excellent choice for a high-quality linerlock with a little more grip versatility. The Axis lock isn't comfortable to me in any grip (except half-saber, but what's that good for...) but is not uncomfortable in any, either - very versatile grip and a super locking mechanism. I have no problem with linerlocks, though - some will tell you to steer clear, but there are many well-made ones that don't fail under any reasonable circumstances, plus they are hands-down the easiest mechanism to open and close one-handed.

If at all possible, handle a bunch of knives and pick one that feels good to you. That is the most important thing. I'd expect to pay $90-$150 for a very good production knife (Benchmade, EDI, Spyderco, or REKaT), but certainly not more than that. Whatever you get, avoid bead-blasted blades - any good cutlery steel will have enough carbon to rust when pitted in this fashion.

The "hole" you notice on the Spydercos and AFCK is one of the fastest opening methods available. You can flick it with your thumb (easier to locate than a stud or disc), or, with practice, grab the knife by the hole and "drop" it open as it clear your pocket. Opinions vary on whether it has a distinct advantage over other one-handed openers, but there is a hole on every knife I carry, if that gives you some idea how I feel. Convert to the hole and you'll never go back
wink.gif


Despite the discaimer, the knives I mention will serve dual utility/defense if necessary. If you decide to go pure defense, one knife has some very special advantages:

civilian-g10.jpg


The link is from James Mattis' page - check it out: http://www.chaicutlery.com/

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-Drew Gleason
Little Bear Knives
 
Well, I've been using my Leatherman for all kinds of uses for a while, and its condition is not decreased because of this. Certainly, if faced with a cutting job that stood to damage the blade, I wouldn't want to use the one I'm counting on to save my life. Better to hassle with another trip to the store to shell out the $35 on another Leatherman, than to have broken my self-defense tool the one day in my life that I needed it.

But, since I already have my Leatherman, what I'm looking for is something better than that for fighting (self-defense or others-defense), but which will not get me in trouble as "looking for a fight" when the police show up. And no one questions what appears to be a utility knife.

Where, other than Wal-Mart and K-Mart, can I actually try out a knife in my hands? Are there stores that sell Benchmade and such?

And if I go with something like a Benchmade 710 instead of the nearest Wal-Mart approximation, exactly what am I getting for the difference in cost?
 
Hello,

My two little francs.

Great tools often do good defense tools.
The reverse is rare.

I like the Military !

JM
 
Foxtail: If you truly want the folder with the strongest lock, the best overall build quality and the best blade, you have only two choices-the Reeve Sebenza or the Mission MPF. Up to this point, MPFs have only been available in those silly titanium bladed versions, but the A2 blades are coming. I own two Sebenzas, and most consider them a utility, not a fighter, and I'm no warrior, but what could be a better fighter than the sharpest, highest quality steel blade avalable and THE strongest lock in knifedom. They're both shorter than you want, and cost is $325-400, but they are the 2 best currently (or soon) available.
Thank you for letting me rant.
 
You seem to be anxious to get your hands on one before you buy, and I can't say i blame you, but I haven't been able to find anywhere around me that carries a selection of good blades. If you give an approxomation of where you live, some of the people here may be able to help you. I'm sure with almost 3000 people here, someone knows where you could find a cutlery store within a 100 miles or so. As to your aversion to clips, I think that you might reconsider that if you handle a knife with one. I would die without the clip on my Delica. If you want this for defense, you're going to want to get it out fast. There is no better way to do this than having the knife already at the top of your pocket. Just my .02.

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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
 
If you have a Multi-Tool, then you might want to get a strictly defensive knife. I am not aware of any of these holding positions, as to say... I am simply not aware of any at all. I have gotten into two situations where my knife had to be used defensively, and I managed to do very well without knowing what a "Saber" hold is. It may not be the best notion, but are you really going to have to know these positions and holding stances with the everyday threat? Maybe so, but then again maybe not. The fact remains that some knives are simply not comfortable in some hands. The Benchmade AFCK and Ascent have similar handle shapes, yet when holding the AFCK the knife has a tendency to slip out and to wobble when I apply pressure: It's simply not built for my hand. By that same coin, most of the people on this Forum would say that for THEM the AFCK is WAY more comfortable then the Ascent, it fits them better so more power to them for realizing that and not carrying a blade that will be hard to handle when you need it most. If you really want something not TOO expensive, something for defense, then look at the AFCK for sure. I personally, like I said, can't stand how it feels to my hands, but it sure is popular enough with the experts around here so it must be doing something right. Pretty much every knife by Emerson is damn comfortable and very cool. They are built so you can take them apart with conventional tools, they are made of the highest quality materials, and they are perfectly balanced and fitted so nothing will be pinching you hand or fingers if you clench the knife too hard. That being said, go look at the Spec War.

About the knife stores, there isn't like ONE store in all areas of the country that will have a fantastic collection of all the knives you are going to want to "Try On", so I will say this once more:

Go to http://www.zip2.com/ and look around. Enter your address, and try some keywords like "Cutlery" and "Knives". You will get some stores, call them and see what they have. You can even get directions to the store, online, down to the EXACT mile. It's a fantastic site, I recommend it.



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Robert Joseph Ansbro

If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed.
-Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
 
I really think you need to carry at least two knives
smile.gif
. One for utility and the other for defense.

There are at more than a dozen models from Benchmade, REKAT, EDI, Spyderco etc... you need to check out.

Almost forgot, if you find one you like... you're not looking hard enough!
 
Hey fox. I'm not sure what type of one-hander you want but the paragon x-olite and cobra are nice. They are about 9" and 130- 200$. The x-olite has a straighter edge but the cobra sure has a penetrating point.
smile.gif

I think the cobra (when it gets here) will be my favorite.
 
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