Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Ron :
By Sog, yes that would be obvious, this could hold to any standard that you wished to use and thus isn't overly meaningful. Being more specific on the SOG level of sharpness, since you want to use a semantic arguement of blunt being different than dull, in your own words :
This is the myth, not specifically just one aspect. The myth in its basic form is that blunt edges are preferred on heavy use knives because if you made them any sharper it would be too weak, the opposite is true actually in regards to edge polish and alignment [sharpness] . There is some truth to this argument (as to all myths) because sloppy use of terms has given to blunt being used to describe obtuse angles. Of course you lose cutting ability and gain durablity with a more obtuse edge angles, but even very obtuse angles can push cut paper if they are sharpened well, and easily smoothly shave hair. And, the angles necessary for hard use knives of quality steel are far more acute than what SOG uses, and in fact so are axes (more detail below).
In reality, the above SOG standard, is about half of the top production knives in the SOG price range, and less than 1/4 of the very high end blades, which to be fair are indeed rare, so only the half is really a sensible marker. To put the above quote in context, the large Busse blades (of similar size to SOG referenced in the above) have been shown in live demonstrations, to have the level of sharpness as described by Ron after the Busse blades have cut through thousands of pieces of thick hemp rope. In fact the Busses were still shaving sharp for quite some time (see old posts for details). Thus a heavily used Busse can be expected to tbe sharper than a NIB SOG. Again, this is going from *Ron's* description of the expected performance of the SOG blades and the public demostration of the Busses (which I and many others have verified).
This is another myth [axes are supposed to be blunt - they are not]. It is common now mainly because of lack of axe use and people thinking hardware store axes are actually properly shaped and honed. For specifics on the profiles of wood working axes and how sharp they are expected to be, see "The Ax Book: The Lore and Science of the Woodcutter ", and Lee's book on sharpening (there are lots of others). Lee is more specific and covers a few types depending on wood. Note that the angles described for the full size felling axes are more acute than the large SOG knives (even the small folders actually), and the sharpness is again much greater as the edges are stropped using leather and a buffing compound. Lee recommends CrO, which will give a level of sharpness beyond an 8000 grit waterstone. You could also look at the Granfors Bruks axes, which have similar acute bevels, and again very high levels of sharpness, actually amoung the highest I have seen including knives, production of custom. Or you could simply look at a large knife which is guaranteed to have a much higher level of sharpness such as a Busse, or if you really want to see just how far you can go, check out a large blade from a custom maker known to have very high expectations of sharpness such as R. J. Martin.
This sharpness issue by the way, isn't what I would consider a serious failing of the SOG knives, NIB sharpness is pretty much the last thing I would look for in a knife. They do have other problems though which are significant, and are described in the above.
-Cliff
By Sog, yes that would be obvious, this could hold to any standard that you wished to use and thus isn't overly meaningful. Being more specific on the SOG level of sharpness, since you want to use a semantic arguement of blunt being different than dull, in your own words :
This is the myth, not specifically just one aspect. The myth in its basic form is that blunt edges are preferred on heavy use knives because if you made them any sharper it would be too weak, the opposite is true actually in regards to edge polish and alignment [sharpness] . There is some truth to this argument (as to all myths) because sloppy use of terms has given to blunt being used to describe obtuse angles. Of course you lose cutting ability and gain durablity with a more obtuse edge angles, but even very obtuse angles can push cut paper if they are sharpened well, and easily smoothly shave hair. And, the angles necessary for hard use knives of quality steel are far more acute than what SOG uses, and in fact so are axes (more detail below).
In reality, the above SOG standard, is about half of the top production knives in the SOG price range, and less than 1/4 of the very high end blades, which to be fair are indeed rare, so only the half is really a sensible marker. To put the above quote in context, the large Busse blades (of similar size to SOG referenced in the above) have been shown in live demonstrations, to have the level of sharpness as described by Ron after the Busse blades have cut through thousands of pieces of thick hemp rope. In fact the Busses were still shaving sharp for quite some time (see old posts for details). Thus a heavily used Busse can be expected to tbe sharper than a NIB SOG. Again, this is going from *Ron's* description of the expected performance of the SOG blades and the public demostration of the Busses (which I and many others have verified).
This is another myth [axes are supposed to be blunt - they are not]. It is common now mainly because of lack of axe use and people thinking hardware store axes are actually properly shaped and honed. For specifics on the profiles of wood working axes and how sharp they are expected to be, see "The Ax Book: The Lore and Science of the Woodcutter ", and Lee's book on sharpening (there are lots of others). Lee is more specific and covers a few types depending on wood. Note that the angles described for the full size felling axes are more acute than the large SOG knives (even the small folders actually), and the sharpness is again much greater as the edges are stropped using leather and a buffing compound. Lee recommends CrO, which will give a level of sharpness beyond an 8000 grit waterstone. You could also look at the Granfors Bruks axes, which have similar acute bevels, and again very high levels of sharpness, actually amoung the highest I have seen including knives, production of custom. Or you could simply look at a large knife which is guaranteed to have a much higher level of sharpness such as a Busse, or if you really want to see just how far you can go, check out a large blade from a custom maker known to have very high expectations of sharpness such as R. J. Martin.
This sharpness issue by the way, isn't what I would consider a serious failing of the SOG knives, NIB sharpness is pretty much the last thing I would look for in a knife. They do have other problems though which are significant, and are described in the above.
-Cliff
