Which do you think is the worst steel ever?

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chevyrulez1 said:
Amen, few people today know the pain of trying to sharpen the 80's Pakistani boot knife, you know the one that the wooden handle that wiggled like a loose tooth and had the shiny mystery metal that looked like it was made from recycled toasters. It will really make you appreciate 420HC 😂
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I know that knife. 😂
 
Thin, stamped, stainless steel kitchen knives.

I always browse for Wusthof when I hit antique galleries, but most of what I see are cheap, serrated, stainless steel kitchen knives. They always have that weird high-gloss appearance with shallow stamps that look as though they’ve been melted. I’ve owned a few. They won’t hold an edge and they’ll chew up your cutting boards.
 
David Mary said:
And yet would you believe that the first fixed blade I carried daily that really got me into knives was a Minimalist in said underwhelming alloy. It got really sharp one day when I had a guy at a farmer's market in New Brunswick sharpen it for me, but I already knew it would refuse to stay that way if I used it. In fact I just carried it and didn't use it any more for that reason (until I learned to sharpen).
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I think a good thing in this thread is that so many of us have actually used the steels we are knocking and sometimes extensively. I've certainly used all the ones I mentioned

DrubieG said:
Not that it’s objectively bad, but the amount of money that knife companies are charging for n690 makes it terrible
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I was happy with N690 as Kizer's default steel in the $50-100 range on knives like the Gemini. (They've since moved to 154CM.) You can still get Bradford Guardians in N690 for around $100. From what I hear, they do a decent heat treatment on those. (I haven't used mine enough to say.) TFK is currently offering fixed blades in N690 for around $120 and I've heard good things about those. That all feels very reasonable to me.

It's when I see something in N690 for $300 or more when I tend to roll my eyes. I'm sure it will perform well with a great heat treatment, but how could I possible justify something like a Bastinelli for that much (or more) when so many others are offering Elmax, MagnaCut, etc. with a good heat treatment at comparable prices? (David Mary comes to mind...)
 
I really don't want to get into politics. Nevertheless, if one put China into the equation, then nothing from anywhere looks value.

They can totally destroy budget fixed blade like Mora Companion if they want to, except at such low price, the margin is not worth it for them.
 
David Mary said:
And yet would you believe that the first fixed blade I carried daily that really got me into knives was a Minimalist in said underwhelming alloy. It got really sharp one day when I had a guy at a farmer's market in New Brunswick sharpen it for me, but I already knew it would refuse to stay that way if I used it. In fact I just carried it and didn't use it any more for that reason (until I learned to sharpen).
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Years ago, a minimalist was the sharpest blade out-of-the-box that I had ever bought--BESS scores under 150 grams. I got a second one to see if it was a fluke, and it was not. They are not for heavy use, obviously, but fine for out-and-about town.

As I recall, I have seen Minimalists with good steel for sale by Folts himself for around $500, but I might be wrong about that.

CRKT Folts Minimalist Firecraft- Pic Heavy

So I have to admit, I've never been one to wear neck knives. It's a very practical way to securely carry a blade, I just don't like things hanging around my neck (I couldn't stand wearing dog tags either). However, a few weeks ago I impulsively bought a CRKT Folts Minimalist (bowie model). It is...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Another Shepherd said:
As I recall, I have seen Minimalists with good steel for sale by Folts himself for around $500, but I might be wrong about that.
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I would imagine so, since the CRKT version is a design he licensed to them. His would be the real deal. I wonder if he's still at it. I tried contacting him a decade ago to see about making me a custom. Nothing but crickets. One of the experiences that moved me towards making my own.
 
I had a knife in AUS6 that wouldnt hold an edge for nothing. Maybe it was the heat treat but it was garbage. A couple of passes through cardboard and it was done. Cut against a surface like a cutting board, done. Anything other than fruit or steak. Done
 
David Mary said:
I would imagine so, since the CRKT version is a design he licensed to them. His would be the real deal. I wonder if he's still at it. I tried contacting him a decade ago to see about making me a custom. Nothing but crickets. One of the experiences that moved me towards making my own.
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I had the exact same experience as you.

I eventually found one for sale for 250, in 154CM and glow-G10 (at a dealer). It was very underwhelming and came in a plastic bag. The jimping on top were all over the place, and the handle had a crack in it (maybe due to of being transported in a frickin plastic bag).

The SMKW D2 Micarta minimalist was 25$, and that's still my favorite iteration. I learned something that day, customs can suck too!

Back on topic. I'm sure there are worse steels, but the 7cr17mov I have on my spyderco counter puppy is so trash, it makes me wish for 8cr13mov (I can't believe I said that).

Edit: I see what you did there...NOTHING BUT CRICKETS...NOTHING BUT CRKTS!
 
Chronovore said:
8Cr13Mov is definitely not good but a burnt factory edge often makes it seem worse than it is. At least once you are down to fresh steel, it's far from the worst. The biggest issues with 8Cr13Mov are the large performance gap between it and better budget steels like 9Cr18Mov or 10Cr15CoMov, and the fact that companies like Kershaw and Spyderco keep insisting on using it at prices where knives in better budget steels have become more widely available.

7Cr17Mov is a theoretical step down from 8Cr13 on edge retention but the real-world difference usually comes down to heat treatment. (It usually does not get a good heat treatment.) Analogous to 440A, at least it gets decent corrosion resistance.

5Cr15 is a step down from there. This is where things really start to suck. CRKT and others have made extensive use of 5Cr15 in the past. Currently, the easiest place to encounter this steel is in the Crescent Tool EDC knives at Home Depot. (This steel also shows up in a lot of counterfeit or off-brand knives claiming to be made of better stuff.)

Then there is 3Cr13... This steel is often used to make liners or the bodies of steel frame locks. Unfortunately, it is also used to make blades for very cheap knives. At least a few years ago, this was the default steel for Walmart's Ozark Trail line. 🤦‍♂️
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I've always had excellent results with 8cr13mov from Spyderco and Kershaw. It's a very simple steel but it hardens to 60-61 HRC, and has an extremely fine grain structure that allows it to take a ridiculously sharp edge. I've never had poor edge retention from it, it's similar to most non PM ingot stainless like VG-10, 14C28N, or AUS 8.

As has been been said, properly heat treated steel is better than poorly heat treated steel, and both Spyderco and Kershaw have nailed it.
 
y53p said:
I've always had excellent results with 8cr13mov from Spyderco and Kershaw. It's a very simple steel but it hardens to 60-61 HRC, and has an extremely fine grain structure that allows it to take a ridiculously sharp edge. I've never had poor edge retention from it, it's similar to most non PM ingot stainless like VG-10, 14C28N, or AUS 8.
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I have a CRKT Pilar with 8cr13mov, and it's a good knife. I haven't used it enough yet to have to sharpen it, but it's done all the simple tasks I've used it for, just fine.
 
yepimonfire said:
I've always had excellent results with 8cr13mov from Spyderco and Kershaw. It's a very simple steel but it hardens to 60-61 HRC, and has an extremely fine grain structure that allows it to take a ridiculously sharp edge. I've never had poor edge retention from it, it's similar to most non PM ingot stainless like VG-10, 14C28N, or AUS 8.

As has been been said, properly heat treated steel is better than poorly heat treated steel, and both Spyderco and Kershaw have nailed it.
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runscott said:
I have a CRKT Pilar with 8cr13mov, and it's a good knife. I haven't used it enough yet to have to sharpen it, but it's done all the simple tasks I've used it for, just fine.
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Maybe it can be hardened out to 60-61HRC but do any companies actually do that?

I haven't seen much of it tested for hardness but what I have seen tested, including from Spyderco, has mostly been in the 56-58 range.

I've actually used a lot of 8Cr13Mov over the years. It's a funny steel. It's easy to get "screaming sharp" but that tends to be short-lived. It quickly falls to a ho-hum working edge. Sure, that working edge can sometimes hang on versus 14C28N or VG-10 but I get more quality over the life of the edge with those steels.
 
yepimonfire said:
I've always had excellent results with 8cr13mov from Spyderco and Kershaw. It's a very simple steel but it hardens to 60-61 HRC, and has an extremely fine grain structure that allows it to take a ridiculously sharp edge. I've never had poor edge retention from it, it's similar to most non PM ingot stainless like VG-10, 14C28N, or AUS 8.

As has been been said, properly heat treated steel is better than poorly heat treated steel, and both Spyderco and Kershaw have nailed it.
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Chronovore said:
I think a good thing in this thread is that so many of us have actually used the steels we are knocking and sometimes extensively. I've certainly used all the ones I mentioned



I was happy with N690 as Kizer's default steel in the $50-100 range on knives like the Gemini. (They've since moved to 154CM.) You can still get Bradford Guardians in N690 for around $100. From what I hear, they do a decent heat treatment on those. (I haven't used mine enough to say.) TFK is currently offering fixed blades in N690 for around $120 and I've heard good things about those. That all feels very reasonable to me.

It's when I see something in N690 for $300 or more when I tend to roll my eyes. I'm sure it will perform well with a great heat treatment, but how could I possible justify something like a Bastinelli for that much (or more) when so many others are offering Elmax, MagnaCut, etc. with a good heat treatment at comparable prices? (David Mary comes to mind...)
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honestly, when you consider 14c28n is so much better than n690 or 8cr13mov, both in terms of similar low raw costs & the overhead for grinding / belt use / stamping / blanking is all similar...

I've used good examples of each, in terms of heat treatment etc, and for my $, I'd always prefer 14c28n... better edge retention, toughness, and just plain better imho

I don't really understand why more companies have not switched to 14c28n over n690/8cr13mov etc
 
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